CA's prison guard union just got a little richer thanks to Jerry Brown. (Montclair: home, buying)

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by wrcousert

They probably deserve every minute of it. Think about what they go through every single day.

I am more sympathetic of teachers and police officers.

As far as prisoners are concerned, we should herd inmates like livestock. Work them to the bone like slaves. If life hasnt taught them good sense, then prison should be the place where it finally becomes crystal clear to them what it means to earn your keep and survive by the sweat of your brow-no questions asked.

They should be maintaining our highways, picking our produce and doing all the grunt work for any and every project funded by the people of the State of California. All to pay their debt to society.

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

Looks like there are a lot of people who made poor career choices and now have sour grapes.

Do you make it a habit of blaming the victims?

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

Looks like there are a lot of people who made poor career choices and now have sour grapes.

No, this is nothing but political corruption using tax payer money, our money. This is a corrupt politician paying back the unions who spent millions of tax payer’s money (again) to elect the corrupt politician in the first place.

This is disgusting and one of the main reasons our society is in shambles. To throw fuel on the fire the corrupt politician does it when the state is broke from this same type of reckless spending and at the same time telling the tax payers that they need to pay more taxes to pay for this disgusting political corruption.

And you have the gall to imply that responsible citizens who pay for this corruption in taxes are jealous because they don't get the same corrupt deal??? Let me guess, you are a former public employee on pension benefits that we, the tax payers are paying for ... Disgusting!

Some of us are decent human beings

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

As far as prisoners are concerned, we should herd inmates like livestock. Work them to the bone like slaves. If life hasnt taught them good sense, then prison should be the place where it finally becomes crystal clear to them what it means to earn your keep and survive by the sweat of your brow-no questions asked.

They should be maintaining our highways, picking our produce and doing all the grunt work for any and every project funded by the people of the State of California. All to pay their debt to society.

It's been tried but the labor unions squawked saying that the use of prisoners took away jobs from "working Californians" and the courts (you guess on which side of the aisle) seem to think inmates deserve to be pampered. Between the two, most politicians (again, you guess on which side of the aisle) seem to concur.

[ringwise]

Originally Posted by RabbitMage

Psh, don't I wish? It would be great to have a job, especially one that gives me reasonable pay and benefits and one that gives me protection in the event I'm wronged by my employer.

I wouldn't work for a union for all the money in the world. Being surrounded by lazy, entitled thugs isn't my idea of a great work place. I like to be around folks that are all motivated to do a good job, get ahead and know that they need to stay on top of their game to stay employed.

[ringwise]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

I tell you what, find a prison guard, invite him out for a cup of coffee, talk to him or her.

I could have, last year, partially agreed with you, but, I have over the past year gotten to know a few prison guards. What they have to say about their working conditions is interesting.

Interesting too for you conservative tea party republican types. 99% of prison guards share your political views, I find that darned humorous.

But they still vote for the politicians that their unions have bought and paid for.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Don9

And you have the gall to imply that responsible citizens who pay for this corruption in taxes are jealous because they don't get the same corrupt deal??? Let me guess, you are a former public employee on pension benefits that we, the tax payers are paying for ... Disgusting!

Some of us are decent human beings

Don, while that may be His Lordship's approach, it's not all of ours. I happen to be one of those retired public employees with a pension and benefits, much of which I paid for over the course of 25 years, as did my wife. While I make no apologies, whatsoever, for having made a knowing choice which led to ultimate financial and medical security, nor do I condemn, ridicule or seek to diminish those who made other career choices. That would make no sense.

It hurts us, my wife and me, to see those who have fallen flat with the bursting of the housing bubble, the recession, et al, through no faults of their own. It is decidedly not something to gloat over or hold ourselves above. Please don't paint us all with the same brush.

[.highnlite]

Convince me it is corruption. Seems to me that it is pretty smart on the part of the prison guards, apparently they are doing better than you, or me.

and yes, I am a retired state employee, but no, I did not belong to a union, and I worked in a "right to work" state, which is a euphemism for "you strike, you lose your job".

My pension is not enough to live on, both my wife and I created part time businesses to supplement our pensions which are doing well. Which is one reason I don't have a lot of sympathy for the un or under employed, no reason why they cannot do what we do.

Curmie is in the same boat as I (speaking of someone who is terrribly jealous) when he retired from his state job his pension was so poor he had to move to Missouri and buy a trailer.

I think he and I are vastly more typical of retired state workers than what seems to get ya'll riled up.

The average retired California state worker pension is around $20,000 per year. That tells you that for all who get some high pension there are many many more with a pittance.

Now regarding the guards, they accrue vacation time that they cannot take (chronically understaffed I reckon)

"It's virtually impossible for those employees to get time off," she said. "They're in this catch-22 where they can't use the time off they have, so it's become impossible for them to not exceed the cap."

Where most government employees get paid vacation, if you are unable to take your vacation it accrues. Capping the prison guards vacation time because they cannot take vacation days due to political decisions about staffing seems to me to be unfair.

If the guards could take the time, but choose not to, like many workers in this nation then they should not get that lump sum at the end of their career, but that does not seem to be the case.

A much better solution for the cost of prison guards and prisons is to decriminialize marijuana. In the 1970's 3% of inmates across the country were in for drug charges, today that figure is 20%. Get the drug users out and we can reduce prisons and staffing by 20%.


The US has the most inmates of any country in the world, including China, one out of every 100 American adults is in prison.

There is something deeply wrong about a society that incarcerates at the rate the US does.

[wrcousert]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

It's been tried but the labor unions squawked saying that the use of prisoners took away jobs from "working Californians" and the courts (you guess on which side of the aisle) seem to think inmates deserve to be pampered. Between the two, most politicians (again, you guess on which side of the aisle) seem to concur.

Simple solution - give them jobs nobody else wants. Jobs that are so bad even Mike Rowe would turn them down.

[Curmudgeon]

And as usual, Fauntleroy knows not whereof he speaks. Unlike he and his wife, both of whom obviously planned badly, we retired on more than adequate pensions and benefits to sustain us, even had we remained in California. We made the choice not to before we married which was many years before retirement. An added bonus to the move to the Ozarks was as significantly decreased cost of living which certainly makes a lie out of the single-wide smear; a typically ignorant generalization about the Ozarks but admittedly, with a tinge of truth in some areas. But I guess maximizing your retirement dollars is imprudent, huh? In any event, we don't need no stinkin' jobs or businesses in retirement. Again, I guess we were imprudent.

One thing I will agree with Fauntleroy on is that the prison guards' ability to bank unrestricted time (other employees are limited to 640 hours) is ridiculous. The payouts will be huge because there is no way any of them will be able to use the overabundant time they'll be given every year. Vacation is allotted on a bid basis by seniority. The entire contract is a not unanticipated but by the starry-eyed believer; a complete and utter give-away and pay-back by Brown for their millions in support of his campaign.

Governor Moonbeam, in all the negative connotations that implies, hasn't changed a bit.

I will also agree that the U.S. imprisons far too many but the Reps and the prison guard union have made imprisonment a self-perpetuating industry - the one dragging its knuckles and beating its chest with the battle cry of "public safety" - the other maintaining its largesse for itself and the prison employees, but itself first-and-foremost. That's personal experience talkin'. In a former life I was a correctional officer, sergeant, classification counselor and parole agent before going into narcotics enforcement with a multi-agency task force. In a later life I worked forensic legislation. Consequently, a part of my retirement was a safety portion.

California condemns itself and the people seem none the wiser.