The Great California Exodus (San Francisco: taxes, live in, price)

[.highnlite]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

I wasn't talking of just one area but thanks for that tidbit. Also, no one said anything about actual numbers, the remark is that the parks are crowded, not that they have over a million visitors.

Sorry, I had a conservative moment, I read what you wrote, but comprehended it according to my bias

DVNP has 3.3 million acres, not very crowded, Actually Yosemite is not very crowded, if you get 200 feet off a road or one of the main touron trails.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

Sorry, I had a conservative moment, I read what you wrote, but comprehended it according to my bias

DVNP has 3.3 million acres, not very crowded, Actually Yosemite is not very crowded, if you get 200 feet off a road or one of the main touron trails.

It's all good, even I have those

[leonard]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

some green California;

Nice but not as green as here.

You may not be old enough to remember the old Davy Crockett Ballad, but it included a comment about it being "the greenest State in the USA". I never knew what that meant until I moved about a hour from where he was born.

CA has many beautiful places and the best weather in the Country. I still miss a great deal about the State, but not enough to stay. I have friends there and some extended "family", so I get to visit, enjoy what I can and then leave. Funny, as a kid I used to swim in Newport harbor and yell at the tourists to go home, as they went by on tour boats. Now they are welcome to stay if they want, I left instead.

Is CA the worst State overall, nope and it still has a great deal going for it.

[.highnlite]

My thoughts on green, now I have lived in the east, and have visited most eastern places, including fer instance, the Smokies, Cades Cove and kayaked a few Tennessee Rivers, Green in summer only happens with rain, and with rain comes bugs.

I was stationed for a while in New England. The cloying dense humid green got to this son of the golden west. I would go to Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns just to see arid country.

[nullgeo]

Green competition?

We have a winner!!




The wet side of the Cascade Mountains in the Pacific NW.
Bring your hat and boots ... it doesn't get any greener in Ireland ... including inside your shoes and underwear. I do love the color though

[blauskies]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Green competition?

We have a winner!!




The wet side of the Cascade Mountains in the Pacific NW.
Bring your hat and boots ... it doesn't get any greener in Ireland ... including inside your shoes and underwear. I do love the color though

Bigfoot country, likes to hide in all those wild ferns.

[leonard]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Well, Leonard, fair enough and I can understand some of your frustrations. Here's a bit more perspective to chew on though:

Some of the parks are, indeed, a frustration ... and this is where I spend most of my time in California too. But it is where I spend most of my time in Washington and Hawaii and Oregon, as well. And guess what? Yep. It's a function of too damn many people -- nothing unique to California there.

Yes this is true in some States but not all. I agree it is also due to all the people. MY main gripe.

As for the "mess many people and politicians have created" -- uh, guess what? Yep. Same thing. This is a reality of human nature, not endemic to California. If you think most other states don't have problems of ridiculous nature, you ain't looking. Now then, some states may seem a lot more manageable, but that's because they aren't nearly as populated and dynamic as California. Easy for Nebraska to get by on stupidity. They've got fewer than 2 million people and a total of about two industries: corn and pigs. Who's looking? Who's gonna protest? The hogs?

Most other States do not have CA's problem and it isn't simply because of the number of people. There are a number of factors at work including a desire to be the trend setter for the USA. Then, a not uncommon problem I will agree, the excessive power of PUBLIC Unions who basically buy the politicians. Isn't it strange that States with minimal population and minimal resources seem to be able to get it together better than CA? CA should be the example, you know the "trend setter", not a bad example.

Now lastly, this constant reference to the "illegals". Give it a rest. Without going into the same arguments about what they do or don't etc., at least recognize that the influx is less than 50% of what it was 10 years ago and they are leaving in record numbers in the past few years -- all resulting in a negative growth and this reality is well documented. Anyway, they don't start wars that steal American lives, dignity, and dollars. They don't poison the planet or ourselves and our children with irresponsible and unnecessary products. And they don't cost our economy a drop in the bucket compared to what has been stolen and ruined by highly educated, sophisticated, talented, clever, citizen sociopaths in the financial and industrial corporate culture.

Yes the number is still dropping. However the damage has been done. I am a perfect example. I owned a business at one time in SD and hired only American citizens or legal workers. My competitors came along and hired illegals at a fraction of what I paid and under bid my jobs. The end result was I had to close the business and lay off citizens so illegals could stay working and their bosses rake the bucks in. This is still a problem and it isn't being addressed by the State because the groups favorable to illegal immigration have ... well contributed to politicians and used their resources to excoriate those who oppose them. Does this mean I am anti-immigrant/immigration? Nope not at all, just against illegal acts by anyone. Now you may feel it is a drop in the bucket and want to blame others. How about agreeing they all are at fault and demand they all change?

California is fine. People suck.

Uh, that was my point. The State, the physical land and it's attributes, are wonderful. It is the people who have messed it up. Legal and illegal, Conservative and Liberal, Capitalist and Socialist and of course the "Progressives", who have no clue. If that weren't the case CA would be a paradise with all the people, resources and climate, etc it has. It isn't.

[wrcousert]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Green competition?

We have a winner!!




The wet side of the Cascade Mountains in the Pacific NW.
Bring your hat and boots ... it doesn't get any greener in Ireland ... including inside your shoes and underwear. I do love the color though

Where was this picture taken?

[wrcousert]

Originally Posted by blauskies

Bigfoot country, likes to hide in all those wild ferns.

Just follow the bells.

[nullgeo]

Well Leonard, you and I just aren't too much on the same page then. But a bit here and there

Originally Posted by leonard

Most other States do not have CA's problem and it isn't simply because of the number of people. There are a number of factors at work including a desire to be the trend setter for the USA. Then, a not uncommon problem I will agree, the excessive power of PUBLIC Unions who basically buy the politicians. Isn't it strange that States with minimal population and minimal resources seem to be able to get it together better than CA? CA should be the example, you know the "trend setter", not a bad example.

Most other states don't have California's problems, right ... because they're not California. They have their own problem sets unique to their own circumstances. No, it's not strange that states with minimal populations and minimal resources operate with greater simplicity -- they're more simplistic. *drum roll and rim shot* It all does, indeed, have quite a lot to do with how many people -- combined with resource orientation, and a myriad of other factors unique to the state. There is no "one size fits all" boiler plate solution. Thank goodness. How boring would that be? Public unions aren't a problem, they're a good balancing force -- depending on how they are structured and dealt with. The problem isn't that unions exist, of course -- it's how certain players play them.

Originally Posted by leonard

Yes the number is still dropping. However the damage has been done. I am a perfect example. I owned a business at one time in SD and hired only American citizens or legal workers. My competitors came along and hired illegals at a fraction of what I paid and under bid my jobs. The end result was I had to close the business and lay off citizens so illegals could stay working and their bosses rake the bucks in. This is still a problem and it isn't being addressed by the State because the groups favorable to illegal immigration have ... well contributed to politicians and used their resources to excoriate those who oppose them. Does this mean I am anti-immigrant/immigration? Nope not at all, just against illegal acts by anyone. Now you may feel it is a drop in the bucket and want to blame others. How about agreeing they all are at fault and demand they all change?

As I said, the illegals don't represent but a fraction of the problem that leading citizens do. The illegals issues are solvable, given desire by leadership. What apparently is not solvable is sociopathic control of finance and corporate industries. That's where your really devastating damage is done to our society ... criminal. Solve that, and you're back in business.

Originally Posted by leonard

Uh, that was my point. The State, the physical land and it's attributes, are wonderful. It is the people who have messed it up. Legal and illegal, Conservative and Liberal, Capitalist and Socialist and of course the "Progressives", who have no clue. If that weren't the case CA would be a paradise with all the people, resources and climate, etc it has. It isn't.

And here you have just missed my point entirely, it seems. My point is, human nature is nuts. That's not specifically any worse in California. Human nature isn't screwing up California any more than it screws up anything anywhere. Each place has unique resources and limitations that shape its issues. Whatever the issues are, you can count of mankind to not cooperate well.

As for "Progressives", they built this country -- and for all their errors, they are the only group focused on the scientific reality that mankind is a social animal -- and social animals do not exist by the sacrifice of many for the benefit of the few. Conservatives operate out of fear and self-interest. Focused self-interest is an anomaly to the nature of the species.