Im Done with California! I hate it! (San Jose: employment, wage)

[scratchNsniff]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Vegetables and fruit are the key to good dietary health ... fish and meat follow. But dairy and baked goods and processed "shelf" foods are what people compare?

In the produce category, California reigns supreme.

I went to a middle eastern market up the street and got a box of 16 mangoes for $2.99!! The produce here in CA is very fresh and cheap. When I lived in Phoenix, the produce was never this fresh, it tasted fine, but so many things have to be trucked in and it affects the taste and quality, but you don't know it until you have a really awesome mango or tomato that just blows your tastebuds away.

[CarawayDJ]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

Econ 101, wages are set by the market, no one is suppressing wages, that is just silly. Incidentally, the "cheap labor" you are talking about are paid roughly the same as the Federal Wildland Firefighters you see on the TeeVee, or the Paramedics you see in the Ambulances. Are their wages being suppressed?

Uh, yes, wages are set by the market. So what could possibly suppress the wages of farmworkers in CA? Any guess? Really, take a wild guess.

Most of my business comes from firefighters, wildland at that. You are using some funny math. I guess you are comparing the annual salary of a seasonal firefighter to the annual salary of an average farmworker? How about an hourly wage comparison? Weren't you a hotshot? You must be way out of date now. I don't think farm workers make this: USAJOBS - Search Jobs Here is a short and sweet report on migrant farm workers: http://www.ncfh.org/docs/fs-Facts%20...armworkers.pdf

When I worked in Kuwait for 2 years, I found it disgusting how they imported labor to do all of the work they didn't want to do. Wouldn't be so bad if they paid "Kuwaiti" wages, but the labor they brought in from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and the Philippines got paid poorly. Yes, the wages being paid were "market value" or even better than their home countries, but poor for the country they were working. Ditto for migrant farm workers in the US. I find it shameful and nothing short of human exploitation. And these are the legal farmworkers. God only knows what wages and working conditions the illegal farm workers endure. But no, we look away from this so we can feel good about paying less for broccoli.

I'll give you my definition of market wages and working conditions. Note, I said this is my definition. When wages, benefits, and working conditions on these farms (other than small family farms) is such that you see the same variety of people and nationalities working the fields as you would any other field of manual labor, it will represent market value. Until then it is nothing other than exploiting citizens from an economically depressed nation (Mexico) so that we can pay less for produce. Yes, many farm workers have also gained American citizenship. Perhaps they were born to migrant farm workers. Their plight is the same however. Generally speaking, we are importing labor primarily from one country to pick our crops at wages and under working conditions few Americans would touch. That's not my definition of market value. That's my definition of exploitation.

[Fontucky]

Originally Posted by miamifloridafan

That's not gonna happen.

Another out of state troll. We sure attract them. Moths to a flame, but this time it's not a Texan.

[miamifloridafan]

Originally Posted by Fontucky

Another out of state troll. We sure attract them. Moths to a flame, but this time it's not a Texan.

At Least we florida's taxpayers were smart to reject his High Speed Rail and let the market function.
as corrupt as that neocon rick scott did, he deserves props along with new jersey's own chris christie.


Gov. Scott cancels high-speed rail - YouTube


Gov. Chris Christie: "I Look At Washington, And I'm Worried" - YouTube

[.highnlite]

....

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

Most of my business comes from firefighters, wildland at that. You are using some funny math. I guess you are comparing the annual salary of a seasonal firefighter to the annual salary of an average farmworker? How about an hourly wage comparison?

I did compare hourly:

GS 3- 1056 GS 6- 14.65. As was pointed out in the article the grape grower paid 12.00 that is between a GS 4 and GS 5.

There are no migrant workers in the fields in California that I am aware of, I can tell you that the workers are settled in the communities they work in and work most of the year round, their wages run 10-15 an hour, equivalent to Federal Wildland Firefighters as I just showed you. Doing piecework that hourly figure can go way up, 20-25 an hour.

Ditto for migrant farm workers in the US. I find it shameful and nothing short of human exploitation. And these are the legal farmworkers. God only knows what wages and working conditions the illegal farm workers endure. But no, we look away from this so we can feel good about paying less for broccoli.

Again I know of no migrant workers, and as I showed you their wages are not shameful. As for the difference between legal farmworkers and illegal farmworkers, the grower does not know who is legal and who is not legal, they all come in the field with same paperwork. They all have the same withholding for Fica, SS, workman's comp, income tax, As for working conditions, they are harsh compared to what most Americans will tolerate, but they are far better than what your great grandparents had. Field work is heavily regulated. Rest breaks are enforced, toilets and wash stands are brought into the fields for the crews. If a grower's portapotti's are found to have something as simple as a torn or missing ventilation screen, the fine is $800.00


I'll give you my definition of market wages and working conditions. Note, I said this is my definition. When wages, benefits, and working conditions on these farms (other than small family farms) is such that you see the same variety of people and nationalities working the fields as you would any other field of manual labor, it will represent market value.

If you want to go broke, you could try your idea out. Read the link I posted. Growers Good Patriotic Republican Growers by and large, are in business to make money, not run social experiments


Until then it is nothing other than exploiting citizens from an economically depressed nation (Mexico) so that we can pay less for produce.

Illegals are returning to Mexico, their economy now provides them more opportunity than in the US, this has created a great labor shortage in the fields, we still don't see anglo or black Americans, stepping up.


Yes, many farm workers have also gained American citizenship. Perhaps they were born to migrant farm workers. Their plight is the same however. Generally speaking, we are importing labor primarily from one country to pick our crops at wages and under working conditions few Americans would touch. That's not my definition of market value. That's my definition of exploitation.

I have worked in the fields, and I have fought wildfire, the working conditions on a fire are worse, and plenty of Americans are willing to do the work. You need a better argument, as for exploitation, you should talk to the field workers, ask them if they feel exploited. You will find that by and large they work hard, they work long hours, they work skillfully, they take pride in their work. When you see the automobiles parked along the field edge you will see very few old carcachitas or jalopys, you will see minivans and pickup trucks. Often at quitting time the men will sit around a truck, drink a few beers, tell stories, this is not what oppressed exploited workmen do.

Now, if you have a cure for the problem of illegal labor, I'd like to hear it.

[blauskies]

Originally Posted by miamifloridafan

Thank god I Never been to california and never will be and this HSR is gonna make things even worse.

I lived in Miami for a while now, it's not bad but I'm moving to California I have been there plenty of times and just love it, I had my fill of South Florida, the job market here is stagnant in tech and if I stay another year I'll go nuts.

I'll miss the nice beaches, nice weather from Oct-April, Cuban and all the other Island food, won't miss the tourists, Noo Yawkers and Causeway bath salt sniffing zombie types.

California has plenty too offer so I'll be far from bored, I'll come back here to vacation again and see old friends and dine at my old favs.

[blauskies]

Originally Posted by miamifloridafan

High Speed Rail

Cali maybe beautiful, but it's also corrupt, expensive and sad.

Florida is the most corrupt state in the union, what are you talking about? South Florida corruption is even worse, it's rampant and a pandemic here.

Miami isn't cheap either, South Florida in general is expensive, salaries are all relative. Maybe if you want to live in Liberty City or Overton, you can get a nice crib with bars on the windows for a good price.

"Sad", I'll tell you what's sad, Gov. Scott and the Dolphins.

[TrueTimbers]

Originally Posted by miamifloridafan

At Least we florida's taxpayers were smart to reject his High Speed Rail and let the market function.

I needed a good laugh, first florida being smart, then let the market function.. Wow all in one sentence, you could get work as a comedian in California!

[Fontucky]

I think I'll head over to the Florida forum so I can announce to everyone that I have no plans to ever move there.

On second thought, they wouldn't give two ****s, and I have this thing called a life. So I won't.

[miamifloridafan]

Originally Posted by blauskies

Florida is the most corrupt state in the union, what are you talking about? South Florida corruption is even worse, it's rampant and a pandemic here.

Miami isn't cheap either, South Florida in general is expensive, salaries are all relative. Maybe if you want to live in Liberty City or Overton, you can get a nice crib with bars on the windows for a good price.

"Sad", I'll tell you what's sad, Gov. Scott and the Dolphins.

And you have jerry brown and that witch nancy pelosi which are even worse (especially the queen of the witches who makes rick scott look like a saint), enjoy your state of california, your gonna need it.

and I Don't like that globalist rick scott either in florida, but at least he save the taxpayers money by rejecting HSR for good reason.

I'm sorry but big government does not work and never does.