Public Employee Unions want to change Prop. 13 so busness property tax goes up & up more every year. (San Francisco: appraise, housing market)

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

Oh come on. An appraiser's valuation is just a guess? How about when every house listed on your block is selling for hundreds of thousands of dollars more than your price paid decades ago? Just totally have no idea what the value of the house is? Please.

You can keep throwing out edge case anecdote after anecdote but it doesn't help your argument. People aren't being rendered destitute in Washington because their property tax structure isn't set up like ours. We need to keep prop 13 because otherwise there will be suicides and prison sentences? What? Get a grip.

An educated guess at best... by the way I have fought many valuations and always prevailed... but some took the statutory time of 2 years to prevail in Alameda County.

Maybe you don't know how appraisals work?

At best, an appraiser is an educated opinion or estimate of value based on completed sales... the keys to remember is estimated and completed... once that property is sold... it is off the market and not for sale... at best it is yesterday's news... at the worst it is really a guess.

When I bought my current Oakland Home it was on the MLS and I found it seeing a for sale sign... I bought from the original owners and the 1725 square foot home was all 1957... kitchen, bath, finishes, shake roof etc...

Twice the Assessor made unannounced visits saying what I paid was below market but he was comparing me to homes that have had extensive remodels... I got ticked off the third time he came by and said I PAID TOO MUCH and filed an appeal... it took two years and I won and had my base value reduced 4%..

I know very well how the game is played and they know many will simply go along... the senior appraiser for the Assessor's office called to say I was good... I said a little late and was eager to present my facts at the hearing...

So you're saying Texas is less American than California?

That's just silly...

[TheFlats]

Silly like your constant evasion of a discussion through anecdotes and shifting the topic. There is a way to determine the value of a property with a good degree of accuracy and there is a way to tax that value instead of a previous value. That fact exists whether you like it or not.

[aslowdodge]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

You were the one complaining about how unfair it would be to take away the advantages older business owners enjoy. Me simply pointing out the disadvantage does not equal complaining, just projection on your part (like a ton of Boomers do with Xs and Millenials).

Oh it does. Funny how you say I'm complaining yet you call what you do not. It's a disadvantage.
Now I see why Boomers do that to Milenials and X's like yourself. Purely "me me me" atttitude, "Life is unfair, why aren't you giving me this?"
As you told me to do and other business, you need to bootstrap up and stop complaining. That's competition. You want a house? Go out and earn enough to buy it and pay the costs.

[TheFlats]

Originally Posted by Independentthinking

Ultrarunner,

I never get tired of seeing you eviscerate the arguments of those wanting to abolish Prop 13. I just sit back, munch on my popcorn, and laugh at you take apart their flawed logic. Admittedly, it never ceases to amaze me that there are so many fans of the 1%ers out there. I've never seen so much love for the Uber rich.

Thank you!

Prop 13 helps the 1% more than any other group. It disadvantages renters (business and residential) and those with modest single properties while the wealthy own multiple business and residential properties in choice areas and have the finances to hold them long term. You don't see this?

If you were for the 99% you would support tilting the taxation playing field back to the working class by increasing the taxes on the wealth, capital gains, and income of the 1% and using that revenue to lower payroll taxes, lower consumption taxes, and increase investment tax credits (children, education, elder care, etc) for the 99% classes.

[aslowdodge]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

Silly like your constant evasion of a discussion through anecdotes and shifting the topic. There is a way to determine the value of a property with a good degree of accuracy and there is a way to tax that value instead of a previous value. That fact exists whether you like it or not.

I doubt you even own property or pay property taxes so you are just speaking on what you "feel" .
I own a lot of property in other states and the fair market evaluation of the value is extremely flawed and inaccurate. I have houses next to mine paying as much as 50% less than I do, same size houses right next door.
Come back when you get real world experience, not just your idealistic one.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

Silly like your constant evasion of a discussion through anecdotes and shifting the topic. There is a way to determine the value of a property with a good degree of accuracy and there is a way to tax that value instead of a previous value. That fact exists whether you like it or not.

Totally wrong... the property that has sold is no longer for sale... it is yesterdays news...

Plenty of those that bought in 2007 would have loved to have sold for their 2007 price paid... but the market collapsed even having lower interest rates...

If you want to buy, the only option is to find someone willing to sell.

Not everyone lives in a cookie cutter subdivision where your the odds are better to your thinking... many homes of similar age and construction.

I have had very difficult time valuing land and small homes on large parcels... everyone has a different idea... the only thing that matters is when a able buyer finds a willing seller...

Again... by definition Real Estate is unique... it is a fundamental... we are not talking travel trailers going down an assembly line... plus their is orientation, view, amenities or lack of... traffic patterns, condition, etc... I can tell you for a fact the county does not canvass a neighborhood going into to homes checking for upgrades and such... this is why my 1957 home sold for less than the 1957 home next door that had recently had 100k in upgrades and view of the SF Bay....

The reason the appraiser kept coming back is he was certain I was going to /upgrade the baths and kitchen, windows, etc... again... he was not going by what he saw but his opinion of what I was going to do... well, I still have all 1957 and I like it.

We will probably never agree but I will take a bonafide sale as the basis of true value anytime unless you are willing to back up your opinion of value with an offer to buy.

[TheFlats]

Originally Posted by aslowdodge

Oh it does. Funny how you say I'm complaining yet you call what you do not. It's a disadvantage.
Now I see why Boomers do that to Milenials and X's like yourself. Purely "me me me" atttitude, "Life is unfair, why aren't you giving me this?"
As you told me to do and other business, you need to bootstrap up and stop complaining. That's competition. You want a house? Go out and earn enough to buy it and pay the costs.

Even if you couldn't care less about the current younger generations from a purely selfish standpoint handicapping them will not serve the Baby Boomer generation well when it comes time for us to pay for your entitlements. If the numbers don't work we will start cutting pension benefits and social security benefits, we will start capping Medicare and Medicaid nursing home costs, we will block the NIMBYs and build more housing, bringing down the artificially inflated value of your suburban stucco retirement vehicles.

Mark my works, this isn't complaining, your generation has the power structure now and if you don't exercise it to fix our finances then you will live long enough to see the consequences, even as you try to delay them as much as you can.

[TheFlats]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Plenty of those that bought in 2007 would have loved to have sold for their 2007 price paid... but the market collapsed even having lower interest rates...

It's almost as if the....value... of the house lowered from 2007 to 2012. Hmmmm.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by aslowdodge

Oh it does. Funny how you say I'm complaining yet you call what you do not. It's a disadvantage.
Now I see why Boomers do that to Milenials and X's like yourself. Purely "me me me" atttitude, "Life is unfair, why aren't you giving me this?"
As you told me to do and other business, you need to bootstrap up and stop complaining. That's competition. You want a house? Go out and earn enough to buy it and pay the costs.

What is happening and in CA for sure, is that the Lower and Middle class used to be able to buy there with not much problem. Now the Lower and Middle class can't, but not the Upper Middle class and above are the ones who can afford it. the gap is widening. While many Xers and Millennial's have good jobs they are still fewer in number over all as so many cant find work even after a good college education. There are only so many jobs.

The work climate, social changes and political climate is making it harder on people, which is part of why we have so many homeless (not counting drugs/alcohol) and it will not get better. Many blame Boomers, but it is the current situation that is causing it. A huge number of Boomer bought what they could afford at the time did not have deep college tuition debts, no cell phones, Internet and a jillion electronics that cost a large amount now. The world changed and others can't buy as Boomers did. Not Boomers fault, it is the changes the economics, society and politics have undergone. Plus any desirable place will rise in cost and nothing can be done about it. CA is not and will not ever be, the same as it was in the say 1970's. That time is gone.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

Even if you couldn't care less about the current younger generations from a purely selfish standpoint handicapping them will not serve the Baby Boomer generation well when it comes time for us to pay for your entitlements. If the numbers don't work we will start cutting pension benefits and social security benefits, we will start capping Medicare and Medicaid nursing home costs, we will block the NIMBYs and build more housing, bringing down the artificially inflated value of your suburban stucco retirement vehicles.

Mark my works, this isn't complaining, your generation has the power structure now and if you don't exercise it to fix our finances then you will live long enough to see the consequences, even as you try to delay them as much as you can.

Clueless.