Explain Why I shouldn't Vote "NO" on Proposition 5 (San Francisco: real estate market, foreclosure)

[JGC97]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

And there is this alternative ...

511 Glover St, Charleston, WV 25302
2 beds 1 bath 1,290 sq ft

$3,500

https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-40764?view=qv

No, the price is not a misprint ...

Did you notice the property tax for 2018 is $723? If that house was to sell in California at that price, the taxes would be $35 plus any assessments. $50 annually, at the most. Buy bare land. They aren't making it any more and with no structures on it, the tax is low.

[NoMoreSnowForMe]

Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp

I just purchased a home so am paying the maximum possible rate. The way I see it is that those who got the benefit of huge property value increases and didn't have to pay the taxes based on these new values didn't "pay their dues". What prop 13 did was push the tax burden on to new buyers and forced them to subsidize the tax burden of those that purchased earlier. It's in effect a huge pyramid scheme that depends upon ever increasing property values to maintain. Prop 13 should be amended to keep the rate fixed but eliminate the protection of the assessment values so that it's like most other states. If the taxes get too high, sell your property and move to a less costly area of the country and be VERY happy that you made so much money on your sale.

I'll never believe that prop 13 is good for everybody. It's just great for everybody that's had huge property value increases. That's why the average property tax rate is .79% and I'm paying around 1.12%. Everybody should be paying the same rate and that rate should be VERY VERY difficult to change. A property tax system not based on current property values is inherently unfair because it means that one segment of the population has to subsidize another. Subsidies normally would just go to the poor but in California, they are just going to those that have gained the most.

Prop 5 just compounds the original Prop 13 problem by letting those getting the subsidies to continue to get them even if they sell their property. If you want the situation to be fair then you would want accurate property assessments and a lower property tax rate that everybody pays.

Prop 13 has absolutely zero to do with market rates for current selling prices on property. If the current market is hot, and homes are now worth 2 million dollars, prop 13 didnt' make that happen.

Just like Prop 13 didn't protect anyone from the market crash in 2008.

They're not related in the least.

It's so funny that everyone loves to complain about taxes in CA, yet, we have the best property tax protection in the country, probably.

And, then people still complain, trying to say that Prop 13 is the cause of all of the state's ills.

But, just to reiterate my point. The current cost of real estate has nothing whatsoever to do with Prop 13. The current prices of real estate only has to do with supply and demand. That's all.

Too bad you couldn't have bought here in 2008 or the following years. I suggest saving up for the next crash. There have been 3 in my adult life. I'm now in my 60's.

I can remember the 1970's when Prop 13 was passed. People were being taxed out of their homes and leaving the state in droves. Prop 13 didn't get anyone their homes back, and it didn't lower the price of real estate, but at least it protected buyers going forward who might actually want to live in their homes until they die or get hauled off to assisted living.

When people say oh, they should just sell their million dollar home and move to...where?....Kentucky? Away from their doctors and their families and their culture and the weather they love, etc.?

The American dream of owning your own home, includes being able to pay it off and then live in it until you die. People don't always care to sell it for a million dollars and move to Bum Frick. Money isn't everything, and if it's not enough to actually afford to stay where you are - it's not enough money.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by k374

How about my protections? I want to be protected against massive increases in my rent, why is that not fair? So it's fair for these rich greedy self centered individuals who have been fortunate to get real estate for pennies on the dollar and not contribute anything resembling fairness into the system and to continue to give them handouts at the expense of others? Prop 5 is probably about the biggest BS law that I can think of.

Don't know where you are but the SF Bay Area has wide spread Rent Control... and has for a long time.

I also pay about 1.7% property tax because the voters here are very generous when it comes to taxing property...

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by k374

Yes, it is insane, but greed has no bounds and some of the richest people in our society are it's greediest. Pay the going rate, everyone else including new homeowners are doing so. If you are unhappy with it then sell it and move to Timbuk2... the rate is what it is.

Could be very true... a person without greed has little use for money...

I have known a few... one was a teacher in High School... he donated much of his salary and biked to work year round... lived a very simple life... he would give you the shirt off his back.

So it makes sense that rich people are focused on money... it is how they keep score.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp

I just purchased a home so am paying the maximum possible rate. The way I see it is that those who got the benefit of huge property value increases and didn't have to pay the taxes based on these new values didn't "pay their dues". What prop 13 did was push the tax burden on to new buyers and forced them to subsidize the tax burden of those that purchased earlier. It's in effect a huge pyramid scheme that depends upon ever increasing property values to maintain. Prop 13 should be amended to keep the rate fixed but eliminate the protection of the assessment values so that it's like most other states. If the taxes get too high, sell your property and move to a less costly area of the country and be VERY happy that you made so much money on your sale.

I'll never believe that prop 13 is good for everybody. It's just great for everybody that's had huge property value increases. That's why the average property tax rate is .79% and I'm paying around 1.12%. Everybody should be paying the same rate and that rate should be VERY VERY difficult to change. A property tax system not based on current property values is inherently unfair because it means that one segment of the population has to subsidize another. Subsidies normally would just go to the poor but in California, they are just going to those that have gained the most.

Prop 5 just compounds the original Prop 13 problem by letting those getting the subsidies to continue to get them even if they sell their property. If you want the situation to be fair then you would want accurate property assessments and a lower property tax rate that everybody pays.

I just purchased a home too in the last 30 days... yet a bear no ill will to my long term senior neighbors...

My purchase stands alone which is the beauty of Prop 13.

No one can come into a neighborhood and affect other's property taxes...

Remember... California has just about every Tax and Fee known to exist... so why is a little predictability in Property Tax a bad thing?

No one is subsidizing anyone... unless you mean those without kids paying 50% of their property to fund public schools? This is a huge subsidy as many have no children yet pay an enormous amount to school others..

A look back will show the many reasons Prop 13 became law against all odds... could it be the corruption in Assessor Offices giving special tax breaks to friends... could it be the suicides and jail terms for those that did?

Why would taxing property owners based on opinion of value be better than actual value at the time of transfer?

Think about it... two people buy brand identical King Ranch Trucks... one pays list plus for $82,000 the other bargains and shops and pays $72,000 and each pays tax on the sales price... but both trucks are identical... one pays $8,200 tax and the better shopper pays $7,200 tax.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

I just purchased a home too in the last 30 days... yet a bear no ill will to my long term senior neighbors...

My purchase stands alone which is the beauty of Prop 13.

No one can come into a neighborhood and affect other's property taxes...

Remember... California has just about every Tax and Fee known to exist... so why is a little predictability in Property Tax a bad thing?

No one is subsidizing anyone... unless you mean those without kids paying 50% of their property to fund public schools? This is a huge subsidy as many have no children yet pay an enormous amount to school others..

A look back will show the many reasons Prop 13 became law against all odds... could it be the corruption in Assessor Offices giving special tax breaks to friends... could it be the suicides and jail terms for those that did?

Why would taxing property owners based on opinion of value be better than actual value at the time of transfer?

Think about it... two people buy brand identical King Ranch Trucks... one pays list plus for $82,000 the other bargains and shops and pays $72,000 and each pays tax on the sales price... but both trucks are identical... one pays $8,200 tax and the better shopper pays $7,200 tax.

Don't confuse them with reality. They do not realize property taxes will not go down for them either. They go up the same rate for everyone. If two people bought a new home and one negotiated a better deal with the builder, which happens, they pay different property taxes right away.

[Ultrarunner]

Just to update...

A new city of Oakland homeowner pays over $15,000 a year in local taxes and fees.

Oakland homeowners pay 30 SEPARATE local taxes and there are 6 MORE on the November Ballot.

Oakland has 906 city employees earning over $200,000 per year and 136 earn over $300,000

Property Owners are sitting ducks... taxes are assessed... pay or loose the property.

Prop 13 is the one shining light that adds a little predictability to property taxes...

Even with Prop 13 I am facing 6 more property taxes on the November Ballot.

It doesn't take much to imagine life without Prop 13 and it is not pretty...

Even with Prop 13 taxes increase 2% annually... I had 5 years from 2008 to 2013 were wages were frozen...

Maybe it is time for the voters to rise up again?

I was too young to have voted for Prop 13 when the grass roots wave of voters made it law... but I am forever grateful...

[deepsix]

Voting no on prop 5... Voting yes is an unnecessary subsidy on seniors. It sends a couple messages
1. Seniors need to leave their homes
2. People who are seniors now are super citizens and deserve special treatment.

And to those saying "When you turn 55 you can use this benefit too!"

Your argument doesn't hold water because housing prices have already leveled off. We're not going to see another 1000% increase in housing prices over the next 20 years. (If you disagree, that means you think an average house will cost $10-$20 million in 2 decades. Yeah right.)

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by deepsix

Voting no on prop 5... Voting yes is an unnecessary subsidy on seniors. It sends a couple messages
1. Seniors need to leave their homes
2. People who are seniors now are super citizens and deserve special treatment.

And to those saying "When you turn 55 you can use this benefit too!"

Your argument doesn't hold water because housing prices have already leveled off. We're not going to see another 1000% increase in housing prices over the next 20 years. (If you disagree, that means you think an average house will cost $10-$20 million in 2 decades. Yeah right.)

Houses here in beach cities originally sold for 12-16 grand in the 1960s. I'm sure many people thought as you that no way would house beach houses be selling for 700-1 million in 2018.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

Houses here in beach cities originally sold for 12-16 grand in the 1960s. I'm sure many people thought as you that no way would house beach houses be selling for 700-1 million in 2018.

A lot of that is Coastal Commission...

The more severe the restriction on building the more valuable existing becomes... may not be that way 100% but this has been my experience.

Down zoning is another...

Nearby there is a 14 acre parcel with sewer in and zoned for 50 years single family, 5,000 square foot minimum.

The owner decided it would be a good time to build and has spent over 600k to get the project going.

The end result is public pressure to change zoning so instead of 5 homes per acre it would now be 1 home per 5 acre plus severe set backs...

So this inner city property with infrastructure that was zone for 70 homes can now only support a single home...

By the way... the neighbors could not be happier... they simply like things the way they are and convinced officials to support them...

THIS is huge part of the problem today and only one example of NOT in MY BACKYARD