Prop 13 (megatopic) (Davis: compensation, legal, affordable housing)

[horchata111]

Originally Posted by NewbieHere

You need reading comprehension. You wrote upper middle class. My cousin’s family is anything but upper middle class. They are not even middle class. So stop passing your opinion as facts.

whoops.

uc's are great, and are a huge factor in the attraction to the state.0

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by JJonesIII

Most of us are convinced of it because no one would take something like this lightly and not show up at the polls. I agree with horchata that although you have some blowhards on the internet that make it appear that this is some grassroots effort going on, I'll call it what it is. This is a situation where if you keep repeating a lie over and over, some people will actually believe it's true, but it's simply astroturfing. Don't you think if this thing had any legs, Prop 13 would have been repealed years ago? Most people I know chose to rent their houses out instead of sell when they moved away (I consider that the prudent thing to do and something you should consider Mars if you ever decide to move). I'm not sure where you're at, but most people in my neighborhood are getting between $3500 and $4000 per month. The reason rent control failed is even renters are now understanding what happens when you put too many restrictions on landlords (and plenty of renters voted for Prop 13). If Prop 13 was ever repealed, I believe the first people that would feel the heat would be renters as those property tax increases would be passed on to them immediately. And those people earning six figures would have to live somewhere so they would pay it. As much as you hear stories about people living in their cars at places like Google and the like, this isn't some widespread practice (nor do I think the tech companies would allow it). I suspect there would be a mass exodus of people, but not houses. If you're a homeowner in any metropolitan city in CA, the best thing you can do is hang on to your house and keep it in the family. The cash flow will keep you afloat for years to come! The only caveat to that would be rent controlled areas where you would need to put some thought into it as you would not be free to increase rent as you see fit.

There still are many that don't have a clue how Prop 13 works...

Last year one of the new Docs bought a home and he was lamenting his property did not have Prop 13.

I said your kidding right? He said no... he is a new home owner and missed out on Prop 13 and sincerely believed it.

Then I had to school him that all taxable real estate in the State is PROP 13... so in fact he does have Prop 13 and in time will come to appreciate it.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Last year one of the new Docs bought a home and he was lamenting his property did not have Prop 13.

I said your kidding right? He said no... he is a new home owner and missed out on Prop 13 and sincerely believed it.

Then I had to school him that all taxable real estate in the State is PROP 13....

A medical doctor actually believed that? That's astounding.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by horchata111

here's why prices are so high:

-speculation. with prop 13, even 30,000 taxes a yr may be cheap in 30 years
-ca is ca. maybe the best real estate in the world on the coast (south australia, mediterranean come close)
-non-recourse state. if markets crash and ppl who were leveraged based on a portfolio default, the bank cant come after their other assets to make up the difference. in NY, they can (this is why ny is so adamant about bringing back SALT i think)
-the opportunity for your kids to get a cheaper ivy-level education at the UCs, if youre upper middle class
-there are a f***ton of wealthy, mobile people globally and CA is a place to be, for sure
-there are likely amplifiction effects from people moving here simply because there is money.
-mexican food?

many of those factors, though, can change. id be on the lookout for defaulted properties in the event of a market crash.

Isn't non-recourse only for purchase money loans?

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

A medical doctor actually believed that? That's astounding.

Yes... you can be a great Doctor in your specialty and not have a clue about other things.

Scrub sink banter is often fascinating to me... especially with the new Docs not from here... although not nearly has many now as before.

Two years ago one of the ortho guys was showing a young Doc around looking for a partner for his practice.... 30 years old, married with 1 child and had all the right resume points.

He passed on relocating to the SF Bay Area after touring with Real Estate Brokers showing him homes in Pleasanton, Danville, Orinda... etc... they actually really liked Danville but were in sticker shock... in the end they choose Austin TX saying deciding factor was based on the price of housing.

A lot of our retiring Docs cash out to near kids... Last year the winning locations include Pennsylvania, Washington,Idaho and Oregon...seems having a nice paid for home of 30+ years with Prop 13 was not enough to keep them here... the Doc that moved to PA had 3 homes here... his, his parents and his in-laws... his two children were offered the grandparent's homes but declined...

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by JJonesIII

Yeah, capitalizing it doesn't exactly make the case. Who's perception?

Yeah, ignoring facts doesn't exactly make a case either.

I've already explained "who's perception", people who are not home owners which now compromise 45-47% of the population in California depending on what source you're looking at (about 10% higher than the national average). Add in the sizable illegal alien population (which for all intents and purposes is now part of the California voting bloc) and it could be an even bigger imbalance.

They don't care that you may have paid off a 30 year mortgage and have been living in the same place for 40 years. They see high housing prices, and see the lure of "free health care", and they VOTE in their own interest.

The press asked Gavin Newsom if Prop 13 was on the table due to the enormous cost of "health care for all" during his campaign last year and he said "Everything is on the table."

You may think he's a "blowhard", or whatever childish ad hom you want to throw around, but I doubt he ignores his biggest campaign promise for long. If you voted for Newsom, it would be even more surprising that you're pretending or ignoring what he actually said during his campaign.

ultimately Prop 13 has withstand the test of time and I see no reason why it won't continue.

Really you don't see "any reason" why it wouldn't continue? How about on a ballot measure where the elimination of Prop 13 leads to health care for all funding?

You bring up the "test of time", but time changes things and the political landscape of California has changed drastically in the past decade. Voting has consequences.

[JJonesIII]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Yeah, ignoring facts doesn't exactly make a case either.

I've already explained "who's perception", people who are not home owners which now compromise 45-47% of the population in California depending on what source you're looking at (about 10% higher than the national average). Add in the sizable illegal alien population (which for all intents and purposes is now part of the California voting bloc) and it could be an even bigger imbalance.

They don't care that you may have paid off a 30 year mortgage and have been living in the same place for 40 years. They see high housing prices, and see the lure of "free health care", and they VOTE in their own interest.

The press asked Gavin Newsom if Prop 13 was on the table due to the enormous cost of "health care for all" during his campaign last year and he said "Everything is on the table."

You may think he's a "blowhard", or whatever childish ad hom you want to throw around, but I doubt he ignores his biggest campaign promise for long. If you voted for Newsom, it would be even more surprising that you're pretending or ignoring what he actually said during his campaign.



Really you don't see "any reason" why it wouldn't continue? How about on a ballot measure where the elimination of Prop 13 leads to health care for all funding?

You bring up the "test of time", but time changes things and the political landscape of California has changed drastically in the past decade. Voting has consequences.

Facts, lol.

The only thing you are presenting is conjecture since you are clearly not a mind reader. How the hell would you know how a non-homeowner would vote? I'm not the one making a claim so the onus is on you to prove your point. The facts are the Middle Class are still the biggest voting block out there, of which there are renters and homeowners. And I think most renters would realize that abolishing Prop 13 is not going to somehow make things more affordable to them (far from it...who do you think is going to pay for any increase in property tax?)

With that in mind, I suspect the very group you're commenting on would actually vote opposite of what you're claiming (you do realize that that there were quite a few renters that voted for Prop 13?). And I think it's more than clear that the reason the most recent rent control measure was soundly defeated is many of them saw the impact it has had in places like San Francisco with some of the highest rents in the nation (not the reasons you listed). The only things I'm seeing in your comments is a person that spends a little too much of his time watching political theatre (with your health care for all comment) and possibly has a little seller's remorse.

At this point, I'm tired of arguing with you as it's clear I'm wasting my time. Agree to disagree.

[horchata111]

Originally Posted by JJonesIII

Facts, lol.

The only thing you are presenting is conjecture since you are clearly not a mind reader. How the hell would you know how a non-homeowner would vote? I'm not the one making a claim so the onus is on you to prove your point. The facts are the Middle Class are still the biggest voting block out there, of which there are renters and homeowners. And I think most renters would realize that abolishing Prop 13 is not going to somehow make things more affordable to them (far from it...who do you think is going to pay for any increase in property tax?)

With that in mind, I suspect the very group you're commenting on would actually vote opposite of what you're claiming (you do realize that that there were quite a few renters that voted for Prop 13?). And I think it's more than clear that the reason the most recent rent control measure was soundly defeated is many of them saw the impact it has had in places like San Francisco with some of the highest rents in the nation (not the reasons you listed). The only things I'm seeing in your comments is a person that spends a little too much of his time watching political theatre (with your health care for all comment) and possibly has a little seller's remorse.

At this point, I'm tired of arguing with you as it's clear I'm wasting my time. Agree to disagree.

also renters are often hustlers in CA w parents who are homeowners. repealing prop 13 would imperil their own honeownership whether it is inherited or bought. eventually everyone who HODLs long enough benefits.

[kttam186290]

The messed up thing about this is we should have universal health care at a federal level, for all Americans. Work it out however you want to, but it should be a national endeavor, not one left to the states.

Then, Prop. 13 wouldn't even be a question. Nobody would have to pick it apart or talk about dismantling sections of it.

It is because the U.S. is such an ass-backwards country that states are left to address things like this in the first place.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by JJonesIII

Facts, lol.

The only thing you are presenting is conjecture since you are clearly not a mind reader. How the hell would you know how a non-homeowner would vote? I'm not the one making a claim so the onus is on you to prove your point. The facts are the Middle Class are still the biggest voting block out there, of which there are renters and homeowners. And I think most renters would realize that abolishing Prop 13 is not going to somehow make things more affordable to them (far from it...who do you think is going to pay for any increase in property tax?)

At this point, I'm tired of arguing with you as it's clear I'm wasting my time. Agree to disagree.

It's cool, if we can't discuss this without you dishing out ad homs and getting emotional, we can agree to disagree.

But you should really pay attention to what the people you vote for are saying. Because when they do come through on their promises, you won't be surprised (like you may be in the near future).

and possibly has a little seller's remorse.

I've got millions of reasons why this statement is very, very, wrong.