Middle class pays higher tax in Texas than California (Los Angeles: houses, buy)

[Katera]

Texas is fine if you like violent pound you in the arse weather. Tornadoes, hurricanes, entire cities flooded (our house in Houston flooded with 4ft of water), softball size hail did $3k damage to my car oh and my house was hit by lightning causing $10k in damage.


Property taxes are insane. My $400k house I pay over $10k per year in property tax. Homeowners ins is $3k/year (this is in DFW).


So yea. This from someone who actually lives here.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by hikernut

If things are so terrible in Texas, how does one explain this?

From 2010 through 2017 net domestic migration out of California was 556,710, while net domestic migration into Texas was 944,018 (source: U.S. Census Bureau).

It seems that ordinary Texans are not feeling so oppressed after all.

Not bad-mouthing Texas ... not boosting California .... but, just sayin’: why are these considered “bad” numbers / “good numbers”? Because you think cramming as many people into a place as possible is a “good” thing?

The more leave California the better. Can’t happen fast enough.

Texas wants ‘em? You can have ‘em ... take 20 million at least. Go for it!

[mlb]

My SIL lived in a Houston suburb long ago. Pure hell hole.

A Utah coworker moved to Georgetown just outside of Austin to be closer to her sisters after she retired. One year was all she could take - she's back in Utah.

I agree - take everyone you can from California.... makes it much nicer for us.

[earthisle]

[quote=JoeSmow;55121936]

Originally Posted by Amy WJ

LOL, honestly Amy, this thread has never been fascinating. It's actually been a bunch of hogwash from the start. And it continues on with the cherry picking directly above.

I'm not going to waste my time responding to the OP at this point for obvious reasons. I will tell you and others that I live in the same neck of the woods as he does. My wife and I are going to be buying a house in the August time frame as soon as we sell an investment property (estimated to be in July). I would say that the most logical fit for someone from the San Francisco Bay Area is the Austin area (for obvious political reasons). My wife and I don't care about that...we just enjoy the area. I gave a comparison a few pages ago on home prices here and a comparison (but it was in the different direction...basically the crap you can buy in CA for the price of the nice home in the Austin suburbs).

Anyway, we are looking at homes in the $300k-$350k range. We are looking at areas in the 25-30 miles range from Austin (Pflugerville, Round Rock...where Dell is located, and Georgetown). The most comparable homes in the Bay Area would be on the Peninsula (Palo Alto, Menlo Park..and a little further out if you want to look at Mountain View). I don't consider the East Bay much of a comparison (and there is a bridge you have to cross that makes the commute that much worse). All the homes on the Peninsula are roughly 4x the price.

This thread should have ended on the first page. The fact that it has now gone on for 13 pages is just a testimonial to BS that get bandied about on the internet.

One of the homes we were looking at for $325k







I'm not going to show our home (that we still currently own) in the Bay Area because it's a piece of crap compared to this (and yet someone is happy to pay us just under $4k in rent for it...and we're happy to take it).

The total taxes on this home is just under $9k (and as you know, there is not a state tax bill that goes with that). There is no comparison when you look at total taxes a resident pays and what they get for their money here, and the disposable income they have. The main driver of the median income in the SF Bay Area is Tech. But that is not a huge percentage of people. As was stated earlier, 85% of the residents in San Francisco can not afford a median house there. This is the biggest no-brainer ever and yet the nonsense continues.

This is a thread about taxes and how CA and TX choose to distribute tax burden among their citizens.

I get it, not everyone cares about that. Many people don't care about government policy, or only care about their own finances. Those people are free to not comment in this thread and find other ones that they'd be more interested in.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by JoeSmow

California is fine also if you like Earthquakes and tens of thousands of dollars in damage. See what I did there?

Don't forget the fires and mud slides as well.


I lived in TX as well and ... had my roof damaged by hail, but fully covered by insurance and the rate was not bad. Now in CA some friends lost their homes when Lake Elsinore flooded. Some damaged in the fires in the IE last time I lived in CA (Note 55 years total and 3 times all in SoCal). CA does not have perfect weather.

[mlb]

Never suffered any damage in all the years I lived in and around San Francisco and Los Angeles. NEVER.

[RMESMH]

Originally Posted by earthisle

I don't know anything about Washington except it's full of hippies. I live in Texas and work for the state of Texas, so I'm interested in how California is run because it's the closest in size, population, and physical size. No other state is as comparable to Texas as California is, and vice versa

Also, Texans generally believe Texas is better than California, and our politicians use California as a foil

I've also heard people compare and equate California/New York and Texas/Florida.

Texas and Florida because a number of populated places in each have a similar climate, both are Right to Work States, both have no state income tax, both have populations exceeding 20 million, both have a Gulf Coast, etc.

California and New York because of population, politics, their coasts and harbors, homes to the two major media centers, etc.

(^^^^^ both from what I read online, and personal experience...I'm a California native who lives in Texas, but has also spent quite a bit of time around much of both Florida and New York)

[RMESMH]

Originally Posted by JJonesIII

No, i didn't miss it at all. It's disingenuous to somehow try to make a claim that the Middle Class (the words in your title) live the same in CA vs TX. Here are some of the most commonly used descriptions of the Middle Class...

https://money.cnn.com/infographic/ec...way/index.html

https://www.thebalance.com/definitio...income-4126870

It goes well beyond what you are disingenuously trying to claim. And for most, it involves (as stated in the 1st link)....home ownership, owning a car, having enough in health and retirement savings, etc., etc.

A family making $62k is living in poverty in the San Francisco area. That same family is doing fine in the Austin area. Let's stop being ridiculous here. When you decide you want to have an honest conversation, re-run the numbers comparing a family making $75k in the Austin area vs that same family making $150k in the San Francisco area. Other than that, you're just p i s sing in the wind.

P.S. You can also stop with the straw man argument and address "affordability" as opposed to taxes.

And possibly better in San Antonio or Houston than in Austin.

[RMESMH]

Originally Posted by JoeSmow

Of course location matters. And no Middle Class family I know would be living in a slum like the one pictured for LA or out in Vallejo in the Bay Area.

My wife and I moved from CA to Austin 1 1/2 years ago and love it here. We came to town without jobs and were gainfully employed within two months (and no, neither of us work in Tech). We only took a 30% haircut, and with the COL here at 50% of where we were from, essentially got a raise. We are both minorities and have found people here so much more welcoming than California. We rented first to make sure we liked it and will be buying a home this summer that is significantly nicer than our home in CA for 1/4 the cost (easy peasy).

I realize Earthisle you're not having a good go of it in Austin. But that's no reason to start up a misleading and dishonest thread like this one. Most Middle Class families I know that have moved to Austin from California have found it to be considerably easier financially. It is indeed about affordability.

If you don't like it in Texas and for some reason unbeknowst to me, think you can make a better go of it in CA, perhaps you should move there. I seriously doubt it will be more affordable though. And clearly, everyone doesn't agree with your viewpoint on Austin since it ranks #1 on many charts as the most desirable city to live in the country (well above any in California).

My house is in The Woodlands (160+ miles from you). A few months ago, I was visiting some friends in the Anderson Mill neighborhood in Austin. That area feeds into Westwood High School. Some houses in the estates section there (usually 1 acre + and 4,000 sq ft +) can hit 800K+, but there are some Single Family Residences there in the mid 200s. Here is an example:

https://www.har.com/11808-buggy-whip...ABORTX-5233223

260k, roughly 1/4 acre lot, just over 2,000 sq ft house.

Pending in 13 days.

I think one might be hard pressed to find a 2,000 sq ft house on 1/4 acre zoned to high school of equal quality (to Westwood) in a major metro in California for 4 times that price ($1,040,000).

[RMESMH]

Originally Posted by JJonesIII

Yawn. Rinse repeat one more time.

The problem from the start of your thread was when you added the false narrative...the use of the term "Middle Class" (which was completely disingenuous), that taxes were the reason people moved, and why it's supposedly "better" than California (that's simply dumb as it's based on a variety of factors and very individual). One of the biggest reasons people are leaving CA for other parts of the country (whether it's Texas or somewhere else is affordability). Do you honestly think 85% of your residents not being able to afford a median price house is appealing to the people in San Francisco? I understand you have to be right, but this is just idiocy.


In the grand scheme of things on a comparative basis, taxes impacts people on a very small scale in comparing CA and TX, as opposed to other factors in the COL, the biggest of which being housing. People stay in California for specific reasons (the factors typically stated are weather, scenery, jobs/economy, and beaches) and leave California for specific reasons (and the biggest is because they can't afford it any more). And most of the charts with the ranking of the "best cities" state exactly that (and some of the other things listed by the previous articles, which you clearly want to keep ignoring).

https://www.today.com/money/these-ar...s-live-t151754

U.S. News & World Report just released this year's list of the best places to live in America after evaluating the country’s 125 most populous metropolitan areas. Several factors were considered, including affordability, job prospects and quality of life. Data such as crime rates, availability of health care and median household income (in San Francisco, this median is not considered what a Middle Class family would need to earn...$117,000 is now considered low income) was used in conjunction with results from polls.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/28/fami...francisco.html

I don't see taxes specifically listed, do you?

And since it's clear that you will continue to ignore what is said to you and go on for the next 100 pages, I'm going to wish you a Bon Voyage and hope you can come to terms with the problems you're having in Austin.

The weather is nice near the beaches in Southern California (I used to live a short walk from the Beach in Newport Beach, and I've spent quite a bit of time on other beaches in Southern and Northern, and Central California) but, to me, the water is too cold. I prefer beaches on the Gulf in Florida with warmer water...Naples, Captiva Island, St Pete Beach, Clearwater Beach, etc.