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But we just had a poster make the comment, "Typical California shafting the poor."
Which is it?
Why don’t you ask the poor old lady that’s homeless while meth addicts are living it up in hotels and free housing and Ca pensioners sitting on their butts taking home over 100k a year??
You like to pick and choose your arguments with data? So do i and i would rather pay property tax on my 400k house on a acre with a pool and 800 sq ft shop that is frozen by homesteading and being 65 than the 1m or more it would cost to have the same in so calif where i came from.
On top of that gas is $2.40 here and is calif almost 5 bucks. I pay no state taxes on my 401k, SEPA account and other income. After living in Texas i can tell you that the col is at least 30% lower here.
Your so called low property tax rate is a lie - its the actual property tax paid that count.
Yawn....pot meet kettle.
And here we have yet another one-sided disingenuous argument that simply pigeonholes a particular segment of the population (not surprising).
Only 12% of the population are aged 65 or older in the Austin metroplex so to try and steer the conversation only to that is wholly disingenuous.
The short answer is "it depends".
If you buy a modest home that comes close to replicating a house in California, you should not be paying as much in property tax "initially" (and that last word is key). The majority of residents will get a homestead exemption beyond the first year and few will get the senior exemption so the focus will be on basic exemption that everyone is entitled to. That exemption limits property tax increases to 10% per year on assessed value (a big step up from Prop 13). It is certainly not "frozen". So even though initially it won't slap you too bad, you can imagine what your tax might look like in 10 years assuming the property value stays up. And that's only if you didn't recently buy. If you bought in the last couple of years, you got totally hosed on property tax in the year that didn't have the exemption. After that, the limit is 10% of the previous assessed value. Keep in mind that some of the homes around here practically doubled in value over the last 3 years (ours being one of them).
If one had a home that assessed at $300k and jumped $100k, the year without the exemption at a 2.5% property tax rate would involve an instant increase of $2500. After that, because of current appreciation, you're looking at a 10% jump from that assessed value per year.
So going forward....
$440k x 2.5% = $11,000
$484k x 2.5% = $12,100
$532k x 2.5% = $13,300
$585k x 2.5% = $14,625
So in just the first 5 years, one would be looking at an initial increase of $2500 and another $3625 over the next 4 years. Over $6100 in 5 years.
This is exactly why Prop 13 is so much more equitable and doesn't force people out of their communities.
And of course you won't hear about other intangibles.
One is clearly the weather. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the Austin metroplex almost broke the record for 100 degree days this last summer. Most of those days, due to humidity had a "feels like" temperature of between 106 to 109 degrees. Now this poster has made claims in the past that people get "used to it" which obviously is complete hogwash. In reality, summer's here would remind one of the shelter-in-place order during the pandemic because the majority of people are indeed staying inside the entire summer (do any of you think you'd be running around outside in that heat?)
This was followed by a deep freeze in the winter with temperatures in the teens and a "feels like" temperature of -4 degrees (but yeah, "you get used to it" )
As far as scenery, there's not much.
I'm convinced this poster lives in Georgetown, Tx. They have a town square that is quite charming and minorities love it when they see that huge statute of the Confederate soldier that smacks you right in the face in the heart of that charming town square.
Often times people will explain how friendly folks are here, but do something they don't like and that charm wears off quick and those charming, church going people will become uncivil at the flip of a switch and start throwing daggers. I was reminded of that in a recent HOA meeting when there was going to be a change in the parking in the subdivision we live in. I'm never seen a bigger group of adult behaving badly.
How about those electricity costs? I recall during the summer reading so many posts in the Texas forum of people having bills upwards of $300 (we were smart enough to get an energy efficient home so we don't deal with that). Then there's all that watering on those nice lawns that are non-existent on many of those smaller homes in CA (probably looking at a water bill of $200+ a month).
And how about those gas prices? Hmmm? I just did a comparison of the Costco that I buy gas from here vs the one back in the Bay Area.
Regular $2.76 vs $3.99
Premium $3.27 vs $4.29
If I drive 12k miles a year and get 30 miles per gallon, that puts me at 400 gallons. So the difference in regular is $492 and premium $408. Oooh boy...that's gonna break the bank. Admittedly, if I looked at the type of cars people drive in both locales, there's probably less of a difference since you gotta have that "Big Truck" here in Texas (smh).
How about income level? Yeah, in all likelihood you'll take a haircut if you're moving from the SF Bay Area to Austin. According to Bankrate's COL calculator, the average salary in Austin is $59,497 and in the SF Bay Area it's $88,243 (32% drop in salary). Now according to Bankrate, you should only need $47,406 to live a similar lifestyle so on the surface it definitely looks like a win to move if you're OK with the lack of scenery, oppressively hot summer, and frigid winters. But admittedly, if you're already an established resident in CA with a low property tax base and the advantage of Prop 13, that might not necessarily be so and any tax savings on retirement funds could very easily be negated by the fact that you were able to save up more with the additional income.
And now with no tailgating at SoFi stadium during the National Championship game? Can California get any more dumb? Not surprised the PAC 10 hasn’t made the playoffs since 2016. The Natty should be played in the South East anyway considering the SEC is in it every year.
And here we have yet another one-sided disingenuous argument that simply pigeonholes a particular segment of the population (not surprising).
Only 12% of the population are aged 65 or older in the Austin metroplex so to try and steer the conversation only to that is wholly disingenuous.
The short answer is "it depends".
If you buy a modest home that comes close to replicating a house in California, you should not be paying as much in property tax "initially" (and that last word is key). The majority of residents will get a homestead exemption beyond the first year and few will get the senior exemption so the focus will be on basic exemption that everyone is entitled to. That exemption limits property tax increases to 10% per year on assessed value (a big step up from Prop 13). It is certainly not "frozen". So even though initially it won't slap you too bad, you can imagine what your tax might look like in 10 years assuming the property value stays up. And that's only if you didn't recently buy. If you bought in the last couple of years, you got totally hosed on property tax in the year that didn't have the exemption. After that, the limit is 10% of the previous assessed value. Keep in mind that some of the homes around here practically doubled in value over the last 3 years (ours being one of them).
If one had a home that assessed at $300k and jumped $100k, the year without the exemption at a 2.5% property tax rate would involve an instant increase of $2500. After that, because of current appreciation, you're looking at a 10% jump from that assessed value per year.
So going forward....
$440k x 2.5% = $11,000
$484k x 2.5% = $12,100
$532k x 2.5% = $13,300
$585k x 2.5% = $14,625
So in just the first 5 years, one would be looking at an initial increase of $2500 and another $3625 over the next 4 years. Over $6100 in 5 years.
This is exactly why Prop 13 is so much more equitable and doesn't force people out of their communities.
And of course you won't hear about other intangibles.
One is clearly the weather. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the Austin metroplex almost broke the record for 100 degree days this last summer. Most of those days, due to humidity had a "feels like" temperature of between 106 to 109 degrees. Now this poster has made claims in the past that people get "used to it" which obviously is complete hogwash. In reality, summer's here would remind one of the shelter-in-place order during the pandemic because the majority of people are indeed staying inside the entire summer (do any of you think you'd be running around outside in that heat?)
This was followed by a deep freeze in the winter with temperatures in the teens and a "feels like" temperature of -4 degrees (but yeah, "you get used to it" )
As far as scenery, there's not much.
I'm convinced this poster lives in Georgetown, Tx. They have a town square that is quite charming and minorities love it when they see that huge statute of the Confederate soldier that smacks you right in the face in the heart of that charming town square.
Often times people will explain how friendly folks are here, but do something they don't like and that charm wears off quick and those charming, church going people will become uncivil at the flip of a switch and start throwing daggers. I was reminded of that in a recent HOA meeting when there was going to be a change in the parking in the subdivision we live in. I'm never seen a bigger group of adult behaving badly.
How about those electricity costs? I recall during the summer reading so many posts in the Texas forum of people having bills upwards of $300 (we were smart enough to get an energy efficient home so we don't deal with that). Then there's all that watering on those nice lawns that are non-existent on many of those smaller homes in CA (probably looking at a water bill of $200+ a month).
And how about those gas prices? Hmmm? I just did a comparison of the Costco that I buy gas from here vs the one back in the Bay Area.
Regular $2.76 vs $3.99
Premium $3.27 vs $4.29
If I drive 12k miles a year and get 30 miles per gallon, that puts me at 400 gallons. So the difference in regular is $492 and premium $408. Oooh boy...that's gonna break the bank. Admittedly, if I looked at the type of cars people drive in both locales, there's probably less of a difference since you gotta have that "Big Truck" here in Texas (smh).
How about income level? Yeah, in all likelihood you'll take a haircut if you're moving from the SF Bay Area to Austin. According to Bankrate's COL calculator, the average salary in Austin is $59,497 and in the SF Bay Area it's $88,243 (32% drop in salary). Now according to Bankrate, you should only need $47,406 to live a similar lifestyle so on the surface it definitely looks like a win to move if you're OK with the lack of scenery, oppressively hot summer, and frigid winters. But admittedly, if you're already an established resident in CA with a low property tax base and the advantage of Prop 13, that might not necessarily be so and any tax savings on retirement funds could very easily be negated by the fact that you were able to save up more with the additional income.
So again, it depends.
If Austin is such a Hell on earth why do you live there?
If Austin is such a Hell on earth why do you live there?
I don’t get why everyone quotes Austin for Texas property taxes. Austin has the most expensive property taxes in the state by a long shot (it’s also more liberal than much of CA and chock full of Bay Area expats voting for the same policies that caused everything to become incredibly expensive in CA). It’s silly to use one county in a state to generalize an entire state’s taxes.
If you go to Dallas, Houston etc property taxes are about 60% of Austin and the property is generally cheaper as well.
I don’t get why everyone quotes Austin for Texas property taxes. Austin has the most expensive property taxes in the state by a long shot (it’s also more liberal than much of CA and chock full of Bay Area expats voting for the same policies that caused everything to become incredibly expensive in CA). It’s silly to use one county in a state to generalize an entire state’s taxes.
If you go to Dallas, Houston etc property taxes are about 60% of Austin and the property is generally cheaper as well.
Well, maybe if you read the thread it might help and having some understanding of the comments made and by whom would also help. It also sounds eerily similar to someone trying to claim that beaches and SF Proper being representative of all the weather in the Bay Area
Last edited by blameyourself; 01-04-2023 at 03:58 PM..
I moved from California to Tennessee two years ago.
What many people misunderstand about taxes is that not all states provide the same level of services.
A common misconception is that services in the various states are roughly equivalent, and if you don't generate tax revenues from one source, you will make it up from another source. This is clearly false.
Tennessee is a no income tax state. California roads had wide shoulders, often with sidewalks, and street lighting. Traffic signals were mounted on steel supporting arms and there were additional traffic lights for varous line-of-sight use. In Knoxville, roads are narrow -- just as wided as needed and no more, usually lacking reflectors on the pavement, with no street lighting in most places, and traffic signals hang from loose cables draped across intersections.
This is one example of how Tennessee simply spends much less on roads than California does. It is not a matter of Tennessee having to make up the cost elsewhere, so much as Tennessee providing the bare minimum of road features required to get around vs. California which gold-plates all of its road features, so California just spents far more per mile of road than does Tennessee.
I definitely like California roads better. I definitely like paying no state tax in Tennessee and I can adapt to the darker, narrower Knoxville roads while enjoying my extra spending money saved on taxes, to use in any manner I want.
Roads are just one example. The concept applies to all public spending, and is a basic philosophy. You can choose to let government confiscate a high amount of your money throught taxes, and then they get to spend it however they want. You may or may not benefit. You may or may not agree. In Tennessee, we choose to starve government of tax money, which forces the governemnt to cut to the quick, and just spend on what it absolutely necessary rather than on boondoggles, luxuries, and unnecessary things.
Low tax states often simply spend far less public money per capita than high tax states. You get a lower level of service, but you keep more of your money to spend in ways you choose, not ways the government chooses for your.
I'm a libertarian, but we need to have standards. I don't want to drive on crappy roads, not because I can't drive, but more likely other residents cant.
Well, maybe if you read the thread it might help and having some understanding of the comments made and by whom would also help. It also sounds eerily similar to someone trying to claim that beaches and SF Proper being representative of all the weather in the Bay Area
I never claimed that I said much of the state has a crappy climate that’s either cold or damp on the coast north of Santa Barbara or cooking hot and ugly inland with average highs over 100 in many locales. The coastal areas of the Bay Area like SF, Daly City, parts of Marin, Pacifica, HMB have cold summer months that frequently average highs in the 60s. Parts of East Bay and Silicon Valley have very nice weather. You’re free to dispute that of course but claiming Palo Alto represents the average weather and scenery of the state is ridiculous. Personally I think San Bruno with an average high of 72 on the hottest month with frequent wind is too cold for me—I prefer San Jose. I actually lived in SF for a bit and needing a sweatshirt in August made me want to gtfo fast.
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