Newsom eradicating sales of new gas powered cars by 2035 (San Francisco: living in, lawsuits)

[CA4Now]

To many consumers, plug-in hybrids fall on the gas-battery spectrum somewhere between hybrids and all-electric vehicles.

Where a regular hybrid car runs on gasoline, using battery power to improve gas mileage, a plug-in hybrid can go a few dozen miles on battery power alone. A regular hybrid has no plug to recharge a battery: The gasoline engine takes care of that. The plug-in hybrid can be attached to a wall socket or an EV charger for a battery refill, at home or at work, and the gas tank can be refilled at a service station.

That’s enough for fans, who see plug-in hybrids as a way to drive on mostly pure electric power and not have to worry about iffy public chargers on longer routes. They consider them a more flexible alternative to all-electric vehicles, in particular for those who rely on a single car. Foes, including Greenpeace, the Sierra Club and other environmental groups, say plug-in hybrids depend too much on fossil fuels and don’t make sense for anybody.

Plug-in hybrids made up only about 3% of automobile sales in California for the first half of 2023, compared with about 21% for pure electric cars and trucks. But sales are growing. Customers have wide choice: At least 32 plug-in hybrid models are available for lease or purchase in the United States

Environmentalists hate plug-in hybrids. Do these cars get a bad rap?
https://www.latimes.com/environment/...for-the-planet

[sav858]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

To many consumers, plug-in hybrids fall on the gas-battery spectrum somewhere between hybrids and all-electric vehicles.

Where a regular hybrid car runs on gasoline, using battery power to improve gas mileage, a plug-in hybrid can go a few dozen miles on battery power alone. A regular hybrid has no plug to recharge a battery: The gasoline engine takes care of that. The plug-in hybrid can be attached to a wall socket or an EV charger for a battery refill, at home or at work, and the gas tank can be refilled at a service station.

That’s enough for fans, who see plug-in hybrids as a way to drive on mostly pure electric power and not have to worry about iffy public chargers on longer routes. They consider them a more flexible alternative to all-electric vehicles, in particular for those who rely on a single car. Foes, including Greenpeace, the Sierra Club and other environmental groups, say plug-in hybrids depend too much on fossil fuels and don’t make sense for anybody.

Plug-in hybrids made up only about 3% of automobile sales in California for the first half of 2023, compared with about 21% for pure electric cars and trucks. But sales are growing. Customers have wide choice: At least 32 plug-in hybrid models are available for lease or purchase in the United States

Environmentalists hate plug-in hybrids. Do these cars get a bad rap?
https://www.latimes.com/environment/...for-the-planet

paywall

[jmgg]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

So that brings the price of one of these cars to over $65 k (or more). Who can afford this?

Gavin and the rest of his friends at the French Laundry.

[joosoon]

There's an explanation of that $27k battery in this link.


The main problem is that it's discontinued and the one in the estimate is an aftermarket replacement. Good news is that GM part number returns some hits that are closer to $17k, which is still expensive, but not out of the ballpark. Also, in spite of the relatively low mileage, the car is a 2012 model so the battery is well within normal lifespan at a decade out.


eta: More than anything else, the story speaks to the disposable nature of these vehicles which is counterproductive imo. Ten years is an unexpectedly short lifespan in terms of obsolescence.

[JGC97]

Originally Posted by joosoon

There's an explanation of that $27k battery in this link.

The main problem is that it's discontinued and the one in the estimate is an aftermarket replacement. Good news is that GM part number returns some hits that are closer to $17k, which is still expensive, but not out of the ballpark. Also, in spite of the relatively low mileage, the car is a 2012 model so the battery is well within normal lifespan at a decade out.

eta: More than anything else, the story speaks to the disposable nature of these vehicles which is counterproductive imo. Ten years is an unexpectedly short lifespan in terms of obsolescence.

A+ joosoon for taking the initiative to check out the story's legitimacy. I'm relieved to know I didn't post yet another bogus story from social media. <wipes forehead>

It makes sense, though. The more scarce the product, the higher the price. Same thing happened with the master door lock switch on my Jeep. An OEM part was priced at over $800 (the pre inflation price) but I found one, guaranteed to work by the seller, for $50. Replaced it myself (saving labor from a dealership) along with a new set of door panel clips (didn't want that thing falling off when I opened the car door ) and duct taping it back on was simply out of the question. Now, if, in my case, I was faced with a part that cost me thousands of dollars to purchase, I might have to re-think keeping the vehicle, at all. But who know about that car's owner. Maybe it was worth it for him/her.

Good digging for the truth, though.

[CA4Now]

"Car makers currently reckon that their batteries will last anything from 10 to 20 years. Thus, manufacturers including Nissan and Tesla offer warranties of either eight years or 100,000 miles."

(Unfortunately, in southern California, few people drive only 12,000 miles per year.) I didn't realize that how the battery is charged also had to do with its longevity.

"Not treating your battery the right way basically boils down to perpetually charging on rapid chargers. It leads to degradation of the elements in the batteries over time — and means there isn’t as much chemical activity going on inside the battery.

That’s kind of what happens with our mobile phones that sit on charge overnight and constantly slog from zero to full..."

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/ele...g-it-expensive

[mgforshort]

We have an e bike and a small fishing boat with an electric motor, the Spirit 1.0. When I hook up the chargers both will start at approx. 100-110 watts, and a few hours later as they are near full the charging watts drop down as low as 6-10 watts. I assume that is to extend the life of the battery.

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by HereOnMars

Good digging for the truth, though.

For the record, I wasn't really doing that. I simply googled that GM part number for the battery and that story popped up in the results.



It's worth noting that the battery packs from these hybrids are pretty serviceable. There's a bazillion youtube videos about replacing individual cells in the packs and whatnot, to refurb them. The dealership who wrote that estimate obviously wasn't going to mess around with that anymore than they would re-ring an engine. That sort of shop work doesn't happen in those environments because they operate on volume. An estimate like that is meant to push a customer in to buying a new vehicle. On a sidenote, it's interesting that Florida allows a line item "shop supplies" on the ticket. That's a no-no here although shops still do it sometime.


The battery pack on our last hybrid was still going strong after 15 years, which double the warranty period and well beyond its life expectancy. That wasn't the weak link of the vehicle and I'd buy another one with confidence. The last time I brought this up someone got upset for some inexplicable reason.

[tikkasf]

I don't have a issue with a ongoing trend to electric powered vehicles, as long as it is occurring at realistic pace. When 2035 arrives, maybe banning sales of all new gas powered vehicles in this state will be realistic or maybe not. But, even it is, all the gas powered vehicles in this state are not going to suddenly disappear....they will be around a long time in the form of used vehicles. Also, CA is not going to be sealed off somehow from whatever is being put in the air/atmosphere by other states,
Nor is Europe sealed off from whatever is being put in the air/atmosphere as a result of a war with no end in sight to the east.

[V8 Vega]

I wish I would be here around in 2045 to see what happens but i'm too old. I'm sure some will people hang on to their gas cars till the end 0f them? will people travel to other states to buy a new car some will probably. will there be enough electricity? will electricity become much more expensive? Will old electric cars be reliable with all those electronics to give trouble and you have to be real knowledgeable to fix them. Will charging get straightened out where you don't have to go through that app nonsense? Will electric car repair shops become around? With less gas purchace will gas become super expensive?