Income-based electricity bills coming (real estate, taxes, beach)

[wac_432]

Originally Posted by stablegenius

My electric bill is already pretty high, so this might actually reduce it with cheaper rates by the hour. We'll see. I'm still not buying an EV right now. But I will enjoy the cheaper electricity (if it ends up being cheaper).

I think, at best, we power hogs can hope for our bills to hold stable while the power-conserver's bills rise.

I have a pair of PHEVs and no solar while my neighbor has solar (NEM 2.0) and two BEV's. Under the initial proposed rate structure, we were only going to be about $50/month apart on bills. That would have meant it would take him 33 years to pay off the cost of his solar panels in savings, just to get to parity with me.

Of course, in 33 years, the $20,000 cost of the panels will have netted me $80,063 in interest, which will be making me $333/year, so the solar-installers are unlikely to ever really make up their investment.

Energy prices increase about 3.3% per year while stock returns are in the 7% (higher actually) range, so energy price inceases can't really justify investing in a home solar powerplant without huge subsidies and fixed advantageous rate plans.

Waaaaay back in the day, I recognized that the advantageous rates were not guaranteed, and now we see the power industry doing their darndest to soak the "competition" (anyone who has home solar).

[GuyInSD]

In the news today:

"The California Public Utilities Commission voted to let the state's big investor-owned utilities — including San Diego Gas & Electric — add a fixed charge to people's power bills each month to pay for installing and maintaining the equipment necessary to transmit electricity to homes.

For most people, the charge will be $24.15 per month and will take effect starting late next year. Others with lower incomes who are enrolled in one of two discount programs will pay less, either $6 or $12 per month.

In exchange for the new charge, the price of electricity will drop by between 5 cents and 7 cents per kilowatt hour."

Doing some math...at $0.05/kWH - it would take 483 kWH to break even on the $24.15 charge; for myself, I use from 150-200 kWH/month (depending on the season) - so I'm pretty sure my bill will be going up (to the tune of $16 a month or so, or almost $200/year)

[Axxlrod]

So the income-based fee tiers were eliminated? No more $92 per month for there highest earners?

It's just a flat $24 per month fee for everybody, and there is a 5 - 7cent per kWh price reduction?

So anybody that uses less than 483 kWh per month (apt dwellers, seniors, conservationists) will see a net increase in their bill, and people that use more than 483 kWh (homeowners, families, pool owners, EV owners) will end of paying less in total?

Weird.

I have solar 2.0 so I will end up paying more. Sucks.

[JGC97]

That flat fee for everyone is going to hurt those who aren't wealthy. When you have oodles of money in your account, it doesn't affect you if your bill is higher this month than it was last month. For others, it's not so great. But, most manage. They'll find some other expense to cut to afford it ... until there's nothing left to cut. Thanks California lawmakers for letting this happen. I can see how you're looking out for all of us. /sarcasm

[CA4Now]

To the editor: "The year was 2004. California had already passed net metering laws to encourage residents and businesses to install rooftop solar. I bit and plunked down tens of thousands of dollars for a system. My electric bill went to zero, and I was happy. (“Regulators approve sweeping change to the way most Californians are billed for electricity,” May 9*)

Southern California Edison and other private utilities were not. So, they went to work, playing the long game.

They convinced the California Public Utilities Commission to gut net metering, so that they would not have to reimburse me at market rates for the excess electricity I put on the grid. They also got the CPUC to tack on a $10 grid connection fee.

Governors and the Legislature have been complicit in this slow-motion bait and switch, because the utility lobbyists know how to do their jobs well. Of course the consumers are mad.

Gov. Gavin Newsom, drive around and look up at the roofs. You’ll see lots of solar panels up there. Every one of them represents a vote you won’t get if you have presidential aspirations.

And Edison, when battery technology reaches the point where I can go off-grid, you will be summoned to disconnect me from your system — at your expense."

- Jon Rowe, Costa Mesa

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/lett...to-go-off-grid

* https://www.latimes.com/environment/...ricity-billing

[stablegenius]

Originally Posted by wac_432

Waaaaay back in the day, I recognized that the advantageous rates were not guaranteed, and now we see the power industry doing their darndest to soak the "competition" (anyone who has home solar).

Yeah I noticed this too, especially lately. They are trying to change our way of life so quickly, nothing is guaranteed, so I just don't invest in much (as far as housing/car/infrastructure goes). You just don't know what's going to turn out in your favor or not. It makes it really hard to make decisions like solar that are such a large investment. You make an excellent point about investing the 20k in the stock market as well. No way solar ever really pans out unless you are a HUGE energy hog (which we are not )

[wac_432]

Originally Posted by stablegenius

Yeah I noticed this too, especially lately. They are trying to change our way of life so quickly, nothing is guaranteed, so I just don't invest in much (as far as housing/car/infrastructure goes). You just don't know what's going to turn out in your favor or not. It makes it really hard to make decisions like solar that are such a large investment. You make an excellent point about investing the 20k in the stock market as well. No way solar ever really pans out unless you are a HUGE energy hog (which we are not )

I use a Megawatt-hour every month, mostly to power my 2 PHEV's. The Plug-In Hybrids save me about $2000/year gas v. electricity. I'll save around $250 more per year with this new rate structure.

(A little aside; my PHEV's get about 4.5 mi/kWh--Chevy Volt-- and 3.5mi/kWh--Chrysler Pacifica. I just saw a report that new BEV's are getting 2.5 mi/kWh! Sure seems like those giant battery packs necessary to get anything over 50 miles of range just aren't worth it. It's a lot more efficient--and better for the planet--to haul around a little range extender / gas backup instead of thousands of pounds of battery storage that you're not using! Nobody drives 250 miles/day. 95% of people drive 60 miles or less. Yet all these BEV's are hauling giant battery packs--wearing out tires, crushing pavement--for the 5% of trips that are over 50 miles--and those trips STILL suck because you have to sit around at least 30 minutes every 200 miles. When I drove the Pacifica to Texas for the eclipse, we would go 400 miles at a stretch, with a 8 minute fuel stop (most of which was getting on and off the freeway). Further, when my PHEV batteries are 75% degraded in 10 years, I'll still have 300+ miles of range. A Tesla model-S will be able to go maybe 80 miles, but it will still be hauling that huge brick of a battery)

THEORETICALLY, I could install solar and save myself another $3600/year. That would be a decent return on a $25K solar system, EXCEPT I can't charge my commuter car during the day. So double the price by putting in home batteries (at about $1100/kWh) and now we're talking $50K installed. That would do $3500/year in compounding interest, which we can assume would probably keep approximate pace with energy cost increases. So I'll never recoup the opportunity cost of solar+batteries, and just the connection fee (Currently $300/year) eats up my itty-bitty margin. Of course, you know that fee will only increase. Also batteries and solar panels will wear out.

Sure, you can massage the numbers and come up with some NEM 3.0 crazy scheme to dump power on the grid when generating costs are $1/kW or something. However, it's obvious that the energy companies will just keep putting their fingers on the scales so they come out ahead, and self-generators get screwed.

Long story short: the system is not set up for people to run their own powerplants, and it probably never will be. Unless you live on unincorporated land and can freely go 100% energy-independent, don't install solar or batteries. You don't have the economy of scale of large powerplants and so you'll always lose. It's even questionable if rooftop solar is better for the environment, or if you're just being fooled into value-signaling.

Now, a breakthrough in battery/solar tech, huge up-front subsidies, or some sort of energy crisis could change these numbers.

Right now the best idea is: Solar-powered chargers at places of business and PHEVs. Big/baseload electric with wind, solar, hydro, nuke, and gas-fired topping stations.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

And this is why we just can't pull the trigger for solar. You are a target for the energy companies. New roof. Takes 20-30 years to break even and then you have to replace it all and start over. People crowing about their low energy bill don't mention what their monthly payment is to own the panels and batteries. Apparently if you live near the beach it's a push at best.

[stablegenius]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

And this is why we just can't pull the trigger for solar. You are a target for the energy companies. New roof. Takes 20-30 years to break even and then you have to replace it all and start over. People crowing about their low energy bill don't mention what their monthly payment is to own the panels and batteries. Apparently if you live near the beach it's a push at best.

Indeed. We have two months of gray here at least.

[MKTwet]

Utility bills technically is another tax. Because electricity is actually quite plentiful with so many variety of power the supply isn't the problem. It's the manpower, pension, and cost of worker salaries. A lot of utility companies could've ran lean but they are constantly looking to get bloated to drain more taxpayer funds. The more solar panels are put up the more profits they make from the grid.