Left or plan on leaving California, why? (Los Angeles, Orange: renting, job market)

[Charles]

Originally Posted by pll

We left California back in 1994 because of the high crime in the area we lived (Encinitas) and we couldn't afford to buy a home. Plus, we were unsure about the public schools and couldn't afford private. Fast forward 15 years and I'm glad about our descision. We've raised our 2 kids in Idaho and both will soon be in college. They haven't been exposed to all the crime, etc. that I was growing up in San Diego. It was a complete sacrifice on our part (dad and mom). I have hated the cold and the snow. The locals were unkind to us when we moved here. The people are guarded and it's hard to develope close relationships. We did move to Seattle for four years and loved it -except for the rain. The people were very smart and kind. We made friends easily there and we still keep in touch. Small town living is very hard. Especially if you're used to barbeques, beaches and much of your entertainment out doors. We never saw children riding bikes and roller blading. The neighbors never had friendly block parties or people over for dinner.
If I had it to do over again with my husbands income at the time and having two babies to take care of I would. I came to realize how much an affect the weather has in a persons life. If you move to the snow you have to love skiing and snowboarding or you will be housebound for 6 months and unhappy. If you don't like crowds or need social interaction you will do great in snow county because many people are confined to their homes for the winter months. People go to movies, eat out and go to the mall. That's about it.
The pluses were the safety and lack of crime. People do warm up their cars while they aren't in them. It's okay if you forget to lock your door or leave your garage door open occasionally. Also, you can get an incredibly huge home in other states for $150- 220k with good schools.
So, our journey is going to be complete as we head back to California in one year. We will probably put our youngest in private school and we will sacrifice in the size of our home. But it will be good to be home. You take the bad with the good and like loving a spouse you learn to have unconditional love and take the bad with the good.

I think I read ten negatives (weather, non-social people, etc.) and three positives in this post regarding the move out of California. If you could get by the three negatives (not safe, bad schools, unaffordable housing), would you have stayed in the first place?

[pll]

Great question. At the time no. We made our decision based on what we had to work with at that time. We moved for the sake of our children and what we could afford. Our children are college now and my spouse has a much better job then he did then. Now we are able to afford the life style that California wasn't able to provide us 15 years ago. If you can afford to live where the schools are good, you feel safe at night and have a nice home stay in California unless you want seasons. If you want to move away I would rent for a year to see how you like the long winters first.

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by cobmw

Conservatism causes problems? Like what for instance?

It's pretty simple. As people have left California for low tax, conservative states like Texas, Nevada and Arizona ... the crime rates in those major cities have risen.

Why? Increased population puts more strain on law enforcement with little tax base to fight crime so, crime goes up.

Cheap has its price too ... higher crime rates. Not to mention all of the illegals that conservatives love to complain about are also migrating to the cheaper states. Afterall, illegals want to save money too.

Texas, for example, has now replaced California as the number one destination for illegal immigration.

[cobmw]

What a bizarre stretch of logic. Conservatism is bad becasue when conservatives leave CA for a better place they bring crime with them. You ought to be able to do better than that.

And it's probably not true. Fort Collins, CO for example is swarming with California escapees. The city has grown tremendously over the past couple of decades. Yet the crime rate remains very low.

But you did inadvertently hit on one fact. Crime is related to ethnicity. Look at the ethnic areas of CA or any state and that's where the high crime rates will be found. Crime is especially bad in areas where large numbers of illegals live. Yes I know it ruffles the feathers of libs who cringe at facts like this. But it is a fact. Research crime statistics and you will find the link between ethnicity and crime.

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by cobmw

What a bizarre stretch of logic. Conservatism is bad becasue when conservatives leave CA for a better place they bring crime with them. You ought to be able to do better than that.

I didn't say conservativism is bad. I said it has it's problems just like liberalism. Namely: lower taxes also comes with a price ... such as lack of money to fight crime, among other things.

Colorado certainly has some California migration but Colorado hasn't had much net migration at all ... maybe an extra 2,000 people a year. Why ... a lot of people move out also. Charles is probably a great example ... he moved to Colorado for a year and then he left.

So, Colorado's numbers are nothing compared to the tens of thousands who moved to Texas, Arizona and Nevada... which, not coincidentally, have seen higher crime rates as the population has increased as well.

[cobmw]

IMO crime rates have more to do with the liberal notion of rehabilitation being substituted for punishment. Crimials should fear jail. That should include young thugs. I am reminded of a story told by Walter Williams a brilliant black conservative:

On the way to his shoe shine job young Walter would enjoy letting the air out of car tires. He was deflating his third tire this day when he felt the impact of a huge boot on his rear end. He did not even look to see who had booted him, but grabbed his shoeshine kit and ran. He says that to this day he cannot bend over to put air in his own car tires without feeling umcompfortable as if that boot were lurking. His moral to the story: punishment for crime should be swift and harsh if it is to have any effect.

You libs coddle the criminals, give them therapy and short jail times. And look at the result.

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by cobmw

IMO crime rates have more to do with the liberal notion of rehabilitation being substituted for punishment. Crimials should fear jail. That should include young thugs. I am reminded of a story told by Walter Williams a brilliant black conservative:

You libs coddle the criminals, give them therapy and short jail times. And look at the result.

Texas is a great example of how this isn't true. Everybody thinks Texas a tough law and order state but, in reality, it's not.

//www.city-data.com/forum/houst...-up-crime.html

Houston, Dallas and San Antonio have been rated in the top five worst crime cities for several years now. Outranking even LA.

Why? California has a three strikes law which gives criminals longer setences. Texas doesn't.

Also, the Texas police departments don't have the budget to fight crime. They've said so publicly. No tax base = no budget = higher crime.

This is the quandry of conservatism. You guys don't want higher taxes but, that also means there's less money to fight crime.

[cobmw]

We can go round-and-round on this. I say that the consevative approach to life fosters self sufficiency and independence. And conservatives are brought up with a clear moral code. Libs do not believe in self sufficiency, but see society as responsible for taking care of what they call the "disadvantaged". And libs make up their morals as they go along.

What do you think? Which approach would foster a law abiding behavior?

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by cobmw

Which approach would foster a law abiding behavior?

That's getting way off topic and probably better reserved for another thead. I was just pointing out that when people leave California for cheaper, low tax states there is a cost ... just a different kind.

[cobmw]

You're right - we are off topic. I wonder if anyone has calculated the loss of taxes from conservatives leaving CA. In my case I pay Colorado state taxes well into the six figures. That's based on Colorado's lower rate of 5.6% compared to the 10.3% I would be paying in CA. So if I had stayed CA would be enjoying some huge taxes from me. Wonder how much CA looses from all those conservatives who moved?

The ironic thing is that it was not taxes that made us leave. More important was the deterioration of the culture, the oppressive govenment and the fear that our kids would see CA as their home and then hate it when they grew up. They would be stuck like we were for so many years. And as a matter of fact we are not conservatives. But I respect conservatives as they seem to live good lives.