Proposition 8 Supporters are not all bigots (salon, gay, rain)

[Rosalindayu]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

Here is the primary question for me. How do I as a California parent with traditional values give civil rights to same sex couples while still maintaining those traditional values and ideals in the public school system? I am all for gay couples having civil rights. I just don't like the heavy handed approach taken by these groups to change things which I deem important like the education of our children.

So is there a middle ground where sensible people both gay and straight can sit down and agree on something that makes sense for both sides? Or is it all or nothing for you?

Derek

Middle ground? Yeah, by splitting "marriage" to "same sex marriage" and "opposit sex marriage" or "straight marriage" and "gay marriage" and "lesbian marriage".

And since you believe all citizens deserve the same civil rights. All terms under these marriages will be the same. Same legal rights, same responsibilities, the only difference, their bonding name. haha

By the way, if our traditional values violates others' civil rights? Shall our traditional values change? or we'll just stick to it-----it appears this fits the definition of "bigot".

[Zapparulez]

Originally Posted by Rosalindayu

Middle ground? Yeah, by splitting "marriage" to "same sex marriage" and "opposit sex marriage" or "straight marriage" and "gay marriage" and "lesbian marriage".

And since you believe all citizens deserve the same civil rights. All terms under these marriages will be the same. Same legal rights, same responsibilities, the only difference, their bonding name. haha

By the way, if our traditional values violates others' civil rights? Shall our traditional values change? or we'll just stick to it-----it appears this fits the definition of "bigot".

Great way to do the GW Bush thing by fear mongering people into keeping their beliefs to themselves. I am going to start calling you people Bush-ites.

[phoenix_talons]

Originally Posted by Zapparulez

I should call you GW Bush witha ll the fear mongering you people are whipping up. Give it a rest.

Bush is a conservative and a Republican. One who does support Proposition 8. Are you now saying you're not a conservative but a godless liberal? That us fear-mongering Bush-lites are oppressing you?

[Zapparulez]

Originally Posted by phoenix_talons

Bush is a conservative and a Republican. One who does support Proposition 8. Are you now saying you're not a conservative but a godless liberal? That us fear-mongering Bush-lites are oppressing you?

Nope, I am a strict Constitutionalist. Which means I don't even want state sanctioned gay or regular marriage. Marriage is a religious issue only..the state has no right to be involved. That is the core of what pisses me off.

I am voting Chuck Baldwin. In my congressional district I am actively campaigning to oust Republican Dan Lungren to install Democrat, Durston, as a Congressional Representative. I am not part of the ideological bullcrap that people get caught up in. The two party system in my view is actually a one party system when it comes to economics and foreign policy. Watch how easily Obama keeps to the timetables Bush has already set for withdrawl with the Iraqi government.

I am a God faring person who believes in freedom and equality. Not equality as you see it(to limited kind), but equality for all. Equality for all usually means that no single group is completely happy with the situation. Tough luck, but compromise is far better than the tyranny going on now from both sides.

But yes, you are Bush-ites for playing the fear mongering Bigot card much too often. If I am called a bigot for voting for liberty, then so be it. I won't succomb to partisan bullcrap. I am stronger than that.

PS I am actually not above the partisan crap or I wouldn't be casting a vote for Prop 8...unfortunately, I have children to think of and I don't want what happened in Massachusetts to happen here. So I must vote for what is better for my family...that is selfish and it is not a vote for true Equality...but nor would a vote against Prop 8. So, since neither vote is a vote for true Equality, then the only common sense thing left to do is to vote for what is best for ME. Sorry Charlie...just how it is.

[BRinSM]

I still don't understand how allowing gays to marry strips people of their religious freedoms. The only freedom you have had taken away from you was the freedom to not worry about gays ever getting married. Just because the state recognizes these marriages doesn't mean that the church has to. Straight religious people can still get married in their church and have it annointed by god, and gay people can have a ceremony and get a piece of paper approved by the state with our without god involved. one is sacred, the other not, but the goverment will now treat both relationships the same under the law. sounds like a win-win to me.

on a side note, using the logic of the religious pro prop 8 crowd, i don't see how they could disagree with gay marriage but be ok with non religious straights getting married. i got married in a church because thats what the family paid for, but i am by no means religious. since i have no interest in god actually having any part in my marriage, some may find me blasphemous, but then they should also find my marriage invalid since god is not involved at all.

one more thing, i don't understand how prop 8 has become a "child issue". Gay people live in our world and they're not going anywhere. why does it matter to a child if he/she learns about gays, they will eventually anyways. it's not like becoming gay is contagious, allowing gay people to marry isn't going start some sort of gay epidemic.

[phoenix_talons]

Originally Posted by Zapparulez

Like I said, EQUALITY FOR SOME does not mean EQUALITY FOR ALL. Prop 8 is not Equality for ALL, but neither was the court rulings that legalized gay marriage. EQUALITY FOR ALL IS SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN. Am I through that thick skull of yours yet?????

Your brain is obviously under tremendous stress that it peppers your post with rantings and insults. Get a hint. When you behave with such belligerence, people stop listening to you. When you reduced your arguments to name-calling and insults, people stop listening to you. When you explain things with no logic or coherence, people stop listening to you.

[Zapparulez]

Originally Posted by phoenix_talons

Your brain is obviously under tremendous stress that it peppers your post with rantings and insults. Get a hint. When you behave with such belligerence, people stop listening to you. When you reduced your arguments to name-calling and insults, people stop listening to you. When you explain things with no logic or coherence, people stop listening to you.

Tongue in cheek I suppose.


really, I am only here trying to find any old threads on off the grid living. I am curious about that and am trying to learn more about solar power and green living. having difficulties though, hence my continued agitation of all the statists here.

[phoenix_talons]

Re-read your posts. All of the insults and name-calling come from you. No one called you a bigot, or a discriminator. But you acted as if everyone did. You behaved as the insults you hurled at others.

[Zapparulez]

Originally Posted by phoenix_talons

Re-read your posts. All of the insults and name-calling come from you. No one called you a bigot, or a discriminator. But you acted as if everyone did. You behaved as the insults you hurled at others.

You insinuated bigotry for all who voted yes. I stated I was going to vote yes, so how is that not calling me a bigot? You used discrimination first. Whatever...I wouldn't doubt that you edited all your old posts to make it look like I was the one who was throwing insults. Good day to you. Watch Prop 8 pass as well...fear mongering works well to keep the polls in your favor, but it does little to change the outcome of the vote.

[phoenix_talons]

That's your perception. As it stands, no one called you names or insulted you.