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I don't really buy this... While I wouldn't say life would be worse for most, I don't think most Canadians would believe their life would be better. Its a very individual thing but across the board most Canadians are probably happy with the life they have and aren't aching to move anywhere.. There are probably many Americans who may have a similar sentiment and by and large the same would ring true for them as us - the grass may look greener type of thing.. For most people both countries offer a similar level of QOL with minimal overall differences.. I'd say the top 20 in the U.S do better than our top 20 though both do very very very well in this bracket and in the bottom 20 things are probably a bit better in Canada for the segment. Most everything else is preference.
Most people who leave Canada for the U.S are probably those who are doing very well economically.. In that regard - for work purposes there's no doubt that the U.S just offers more for those in the top 15-20 percent.
This raises a very interesting question. The vast majority of Canadians who move to the U.S. aren't Joe The Plumber types of Walmart cashiers. They are white collar professionals who have notably benefited for cheap(er) university tuition in Canada and other Canadian policies that provide a ''leg up'', especially for people from modest backgrounds.
So the fact that they have built upper middle class lives for themselves in the U.S. is partly attributable to the opportunities in that country, but in many cases it's also related to what the benefited from in Canada before they left.
Especially if they are originally from poorer families, it's not a given that they would have had as good a social mobility if their lives (and their forebears') had been lived in the U.S. from day one.
What am I missing Acajack - this is what you wrote
" Many Canadians don't realize or even adamantly deny that their lives would likely be at a minimum *as good* and perhaps even better if they lived in the States."
It makes the assumption that many of us don't realize that life would possible be better for us.. What many - the top 20? The bottom 20? or the majority in the 60?
Even the top 20 - they are living very well in both.. I'm one of them actually, that for many of us in that higher bracket - I don't think things would be much better.. Maybe I could afford a slightly better car in the U.S... I really don't know but there's nothing adamant in my denial - I just don't think things would be appreciably better making the move given my lot in life here which is still solidly above the average joe in terms of income.
Non-Americans tend to focus a lot on the U.S.'s problems and it's true that it has a lot.
But it's also true that the country is so huge and offers so many different living environments that you can live relatively unaffected by the usual problems that everyone always brings up when the U.S. is discussed (outside its borders).
Many Canadians don't realize or even adamantly deny that their lives would likely be at a minimum *as good* and perhaps even better if they lived in the States.
This fact BTW does not take away from the fact that Canada is one of the best countries in the world to live in.
lol - Botti as much as people want to dis Detroit the fact is there are still a lot of people doing very well within its metro boundaries.. Making 90K a year means you'll live in a very decent house, in a very decent nabe (you very most likely won't get stabbed - i've been to Detroit many times) and you will be able to afford many of the things that most people want in life.. Sure, there is nothing about Detroit that is as vibrant as Old Toronto so I can understand what you're saying - but a job making 90K in Detroit vs 40K in Toronto just skimming by - thanks I'll take my 90 K in Detroit - buy a house and car and drive to Toronto or Chicago every other weekend or so and save up to travel to really interesting places..
90k is very different from 40k. I will probably choose 90k living Bagdad compared with 40k here Lol.
Yes Detroit actually has some very nice even upscale satellite cities. I heard Troy, MI for example is very middle class and you hardly see any Detroit kind of decline. The truth is whoever makes 90k is very unlike to live in Detroit.
40k in Toronto? I will move somewhere else for sure. Not worth it unless I am 23.
What am I missing Acajack - this is what you wrote
" Many Canadians don't realize or even adamantly deny that their lives would likely be at a minimum *as good* and perhaps even better if they lived in the States."
It makes the assumption that many of us don't realize that life would possible be better for us.. What many - the top 20? The bottom 20? or the majority in the 60?
Even the top 20 - they are living very well in both.. I'm one of them actually, that for many of us in that higher bracket - I don't think things would be much better.. Maybe I could afford a slightly better car in the U.S... I really don't know but there's nothing adamant in my denial - I just don't think things would be appreciably better making the move given my lot in life here which is still solidly above the average joe in terms of income.
Then maybe I didn't phrase it quite right. When I talk to middle class, educated, professional Canadians, if the topic of moving to the States is ever raised, many talk about having to deal with serious violent crime in their immediate neighbourhood, or being ignorant about the wider world, or being obese, or being jingoistic, or not having healthcare, as if all of these things were totally inevitable, unavoidable aspects of life in the US.
This raises a very interesting question. The vast majority of Canadians who move to the U.S. aren't Joe The Plumber types of Walmart cashiers. They are white collar professionals who have notably benefited for cheap(er) university tuition in Canada and other Canadian policies that provide a ''leg up'', especially for people from modest backgrounds.
So the fact that they have built upper middle class lives for themselves in the U.S. is partly attributable to the opportunities in that country, but in many cases it's also related to what the benefited from in Canada before they left.
Especially if they are originally from poorer families, it's not a given that they would have had as good a social mobility if their lives (and their forebears') had been lived in the U.S. from day one.
This is actually a very good point... I think the biggest challenge for Canada is to retain and attract talent through innovation.. It is in this area that we lag the U.S.. People will put up with colder weather in their working lives, but if there aren't enough opportunities or there are simply much better opportunities in the U.S - well they are going to jump on that bandwagon and we can't blame them.. The people we are losing aren't huge in number but they are HUGE in talent!
90k is very different from 40k. I will probably choose 90k living Bagdad compared with 40k here Lol.
Yes Detroit actually has some very nice even upscale satellite cities. I heard Troy, MI for example is very middle class and you hardly see any Detroit kind of decline. The truth is whoever makes 90k is very unlike to live in Detroit.
40k in Toronto? I will move somewhere else for sure. Not worth it unless I am 23.
This is actually a very good point... I think the biggest challenge for Canada is to retain and attract talent through innovation.. It is in this area that we lag the U.S.. People will put up with colder weather in their working lives, but if there aren't enough opportunities or there are simply much better opportunities in the U.S - well they are going to jump on that bandwagon and we can't blame them.. The people we are losing aren't huge in number but they are HUGE in talent!
Yeah I think a good question we should ask ourselves is are we giving our high flyers enough stimulation and opportunity to keep them here for their most productive years.
Find me a place down there where my family can live in French from A to Z and you've got a deal!
Just joking...
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