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Say what you want about the U.S., my observation is that very, very few people who move there from Canada (and from Europe or elsewhere I gather), end up moving back "home" permanently. Many of them even complain about the U.S.'s many "faults", but still don't move back home.
very true.
I guess in the end, economics trumps everything for most people.
It is not really surprising, as the US is as large as the entire EU and offers a lot of opportunities. Yes, its cities are on the boring side, but I guess most families tend to care more about money and living space than museums and culture etc, all those urban stuff.
Also, many people left because it is hard to obtain a green card and they have to go.
In general, besides more weather options, I don't envy American life that much. There are probably 3 cities I may consider over Toronto in the entire US, and that's it. (and they are at least as expensive as Toronto too).
Also: 25% unemployment rate is not real. The economy is not good, but the official unemployment hardly reflects the reality. Many do have jobs and income, just not on the official payroll. These countries can be pretty "flexible" when it comes to this kind of things. It is like all those servers and hairdressers in Chinatown - they all have jobs but many are officially unemployed or make $5000 a year. I have a friend holds a full time job and probably makes $35k-40k, and pays zero income taxes.
Don't underestimate climate.
I've turned down opportunities within the US that would take me back to a more "Canadian" environment. I'll take my Houston winters where on a really cold day I may have to consider a sweater. The money and discount on living is just icing on the cake.
I've turned down opportunities within the US that would take me back to a more "Canadian" environment. I'll take my Houston winters where on a really cold day I may have to consider a sweater. The money and discount on living is just icing on the cake.
Might wanna change your username and location then.
I guess in the end, economics trumps everything for most people.
It is not really surprising, as the US is as large as the entire EU and offers a lot of opportunities. Yes, its cities are on the boring side, but I guess most families tend to care more about money and living space than museums and culture etc, all those urban stuff.
Also, many people left because it is hard to obtain a green card and they have to go.
In general, besides more weather options, I don't envy American life that much. There are probably 3 cities I may consider over Toronto in the entire US, and that's it. (and they are at least as expensive as Toronto too).
I think that is the draw to many people who end up settling in the US. The fact that there are multiple cities to choose from and a strong economic situation make it a strong draw.
People exaggerate how much country matters, it is more about options and what happens locally. The US should be viewed as a collection of small countries to freely move from one to another, not choosing to settle in an entire country.
Personally I value my Canadian and US citizenships equally, but if I had to choose one to keep one over the other, it would undoubtedly be my US Citizenship. The main reason for that is there are only really two cities in Canada I would choose to relocate to, one of those I have already lived in and the other I would need to become fluent in another language. In the US I can safely say I would live in at least 6 cities if a good opportunity arose and maybe a few more with some convincing. Those options make US citizenship a valuable asset to hold.
Is Virginia considered the south? I spent a few summers in VA when I was younger with some relatives. They live about 30 minutes west of DC. Always had a good time out there.
I have been to Atlanta, Atlanta was cool, I found people to be super freindly. I am planning a to New Orleans with a freind soon, I'm looking forward to that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands
Personally I value my Canadian and US citizenships equally, but if I had to choose one to keep one over the other, it would undoubtedly be my US Citizenship.
I understand what your saying Ed, and you are truly a lucky person to hold the two best citizenships a person could have on this planet. Thats a blessing.
What is with the city comparisons that seem to prevail on here? The very last place I would desire to live would be in any large city.
Judging the value of a country and it's culture by comparing the cities seems strange to me, When did this obsession over large cities being the bench mark to shoot for become de-rigeur?
Anecdotal of course, but my response to that would be: yes, but not so much IMO.
Most people who leave Canada for the U.S are probably those who are doing very well economically.. In that regard - for work purposes there's no doubt that the U.S just offers more for those in the top 15-20 percent.
Others are just older people wanting to escape the cold.. Can't blame em - Winter for a retiree in Florida/Arizona or Toronto/Montreal - not a really tough decision.... If you have the money you'll escape the cold at that age especially!
With that said, The U.S does offer more in terms of variety of cities and things to do... For most people its a great place to live.. For the size of our population though, Canada does well..
Exactly, like I told fusion before, I'd rather be average in Toronto than be rich in Detroit or St.Louis or something. Doesn't matter how much money I have, I don't wanna get stabbed for wearing the wrong color in the wrong neighborhood.
lol - Botti as much as people want to dis Detroit the fact is there are still a lot of people doing very well within its metro boundaries.. Making 90K a year means you'll live in a very decent house, in a very decent nabe (you very most likely won't get stabbed - i've been to Detroit many times) and you will be able to afford many of the things that most people want in life.. Sure, there is nothing about Detroit that is as vibrant as Old Toronto so I can understand what you're saying - but a job making 90K in Detroit vs 40K in Toronto just skimming by - thanks I'll take my 90 K in Detroit - buy a house and car and drive to Toronto or Chicago every other weekend or so and save up to travel to really interesting places..
People exaggerate how much country matters, it is more about options and what happens locally. The US should be viewed as a collection of small countries to freely move from one to another, not choosing to settle in an entire country.
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This is a very good way of putting it.
Non-Americans tend to focus a lot on the U.S.'s problems and it's true that it has a lot.
But it's also true that the country is so huge and offers so many different living environments that you can live relatively unaffected by the usual problems that everyone always brings up when the U.S. is discussed (outside its borders).
Many Canadians don't realize or even adamantly deny that their lives would likely be at a minimum *as good* and perhaps even better if they lived in the States.
This fact BTW does not take away from the fact that Canada is one of the best countries in the world to live in.
Many Canadians don't realize or even adamantly deny that their lives would likely be at a minimum *as good* and perhaps even better if they lived in the States.
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I don't really buy this... While I wouldn't say life would be worse for most, I don't think most Canadians would believe their life would be better. Its a very individual thing but across the board most Canadians are probably happy with the life they have and aren't aching to move anywhere.. There are probably many Americans who may have a similar sentiment and by and large the same would ring true for them as us - the grass may look greener type of thing.. For most people both countries offer a similar level of QOL with minimal overall differences.. I'd say the top 20 in the U.S do better than our top 20 though both do very very very well in this bracket and in the bottom 20 things are probably a bit better in Canada for the segment. Most everyone else largely the same in both and more a matter of preference. Are you aching to move to the U.S?
For me, its not a matter of adamantly denying anything - its taking stock in my reality and as far as I'm concerned being real.. I do well in Canada - I'd do well in the U.S but it doesn't mean there is this big beacon in the U.S beckoning me.. The only foreign country that beckons for me is the cheap one where I can retire to and live high off the hog with my retirement income... That won't be the U.S or Canada.
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