Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The outmigration from Quebec that occurred is the result of a particular situation and was massively concentrated in the anglophone community.
.
Lets not avoid reality AJ,that mass migration of Anglophones was directly related to the constant threat of Quebec separation from Canada,draconian language laws enshrined in Bill101 and the OQLF/language police to enforce those laws, add to that the highest taxes in North America and you have your particular situation as to why so many have left.
Despite their amicability, the Quebecois form a society that can be very difficult to assimilate into. Unlike English Canada and other new world nations, Quebecois society has only recently entered an era of trying to integrate immigrants. The Quebecois integrated only a smidgen of immigrants since 1760, and most of these were the impoverished Irish Catholic peasants who landed in Quebec during the mid-19th century. Typically speaking, immigrants who came to Quebec either passed through on the way to the west, or else they assimilated to the anglophone minority. This led to a very homogenous population. Other than recent immigrants, the Quebecois can trace their ancestry directly back to the original colonists such as the Filles du Roi. This homogeneity has led to a populace sharing a relatively limited number of uniquely Quebecois surnames. Integrating immigrants is a new thing for the Quebecois society. In this way it's current experience with immigrants more resembles a European nation rather than a new world nation.
.
Basically what Quebec has been doing is completing the same transition in about 20-30 years (from a mostly single-origin settler society to a more diverse one) that English Canada and the U.S. went through in a period of over 100 years.
Gas is one of the only things (other than taxes) that is cheaper in Toronto than in Montreal. Food and clothes are probably a wash for locals who know where to look for deals. Transit, restaurants, bars, daycare, beer, etc. are almost always cheaper in Montreal.
Well yes admittedly I said I didn't know where to find cheaper things in YUL as i'm not as familiar with it as T.O.. As for Food - i'm not so sure... There are a plethora of cheap grocery stores here and of course a plethora of ethnic resto's competing with one another. NEVER underestimate South and in particular East Asians abilities to make things cheaper from eating out to buying furniture lol...... Transit yes - rent yes... cheaper in YUL - Taxes well sure more in YUL and they sure do add up and of course daycare is cheaper (probably due to higher taxes).. Having said all that, essentially I don't think there is a substantial difference in Q.O.L in T.O than Montreal for the average person family.. I think for individuals like myself and those wealthier, there is indeed more money in T.O and certainly more people have gained wealth from R.E..
The taxes you pay in Quebec really go into something and they really do help you save in the long run. Free daycare was mentioned already but you also have simple things like licence renewals, passport renewals, driving exams, etc. that are much, much cheaper than the rest of Canada. Plus you have the lowest tuition rates in Canada. Although gas is expensive, Quebec also has the cheapest car insurance rates in Canada. In Montreal you can get a monthly pass for the best transit system in North America for less than $80, where Calgary's pretty horrible transit will cost you $95/month and Toronto around $120/month. Then don't forget the very cheap rent and housing. All of this ads up and you save a lot more than you would in other cities even when paying these taxes.
Lets not avoid reality AJ,that mass migration of Anglophones was directly related to the constant threat of Quebec separation from Canada,draconian language laws enshrined in Bill101 and the OQLF/language police to enforce those laws, add to that the highest taxes in North America and you have your particular situation as to why so many have left.
This is certainly one view but take away the large number of people who left who had an issue with Quebec being a society that functions primarily in French (as opposed to one that instantly spoke English ''when spoken to'' in all cases), and the outmigration numbers would have most certainly been far less impressive.
That's what I meant by a particular situation.
If all of a sudden half of all Franco-Ontarians decided that it was unacceptable to have to speak English in public most of the time, then Ontario would have an outmigration of 250,000 people, and some people would likely take notice too.
In regards to the weather, most of Canada has the same weather or colder weather than Quebec, so that's not really a deciding factor for a Canadian unless an American is deciding to move to Quebec.
Well even for someone from a Francophonie country like Tunisia or Morocco which has year round nice weather - sure its a brutal adjustment in winter but the positives far outweight the negatives.. Especially when you know how to dress for weather and get used to it..
Unlike English in the ROC, French in Quebec relies on being propped up by the government. In Quebec, French lacks a certain magnetic attraction that pulls newcomers into francophone society. In the non-French speaking world there are no hit French-language Quebecois movies and no popular French-language Quebecois music. In the international media, the only famous Quebecois are those who create their works in English: Celine Dion, Simple Plan, and a small handful of others. Because of these reasons, English almost feels like the defacto primary language of Montreal. Only with massive government investment is French able to maintain it's appearance as the dominant language in what is effectively a bilingual city. The government has succeed in stopping (or slowing) the decline of French that was evident before the 90's, but has failed to create that cultural pull; the same cultural pull that leads a teenager in Finland to speak impeccable American English. Learning French as a newcomer in Quebec's primary city can still feel more like duty rather than an inevitability.
Of course, at least part of the reason French needed (needs) propping up is all of the things that were done prior to the 1970s to bring it down.
Had this not happened, French in Montreal would not be any inherently any weaker than Danish in Copenhagen or Slovak in Bratislava, and wouldn't need so much ''propping up''.
Fusion2 did I make you angry or something? Your posts sound really vengeful like I insulted your honour. I am really sorry if you feel like I am trying to slight you, I only want to have a discussion about the OP, it's nothing personal at all. I like reading your posts but I think QOL studies are rubbish. I am from Vancouver, the #1 city in the world, but know I would prefer Montreal or Toronto in Canada, and an entire list of places in the US ahead of all of these. When you are from the greatest city in the world and see that there are other far greater places to live, you become skeptical about these QOL studies. They always say the same thing.....That wherever white northern European descended people live in big numbers and run the show them the better the QOL. So when I am from the "greatest city in the world" I ask why a unusually huge native Canadians emigrate from Vancouver for other regions, and why the average person can't afford a home when the same home is 1/3 the price a hundred miles away..I also ask why my own QOL is higher in DC than in BC and wonder why no one in DC even considers it, but in BC people would scramble for a US green card.
I also want to say I am not a careerist or mover/shaker, I am liberal and am interested in QOL and relationships above money, but I find it is a lot better for QOL to be a normal person in DC than in BC. It isnt like QOL takes into account how warm the people are, or the climate, or opportunity, or a million other relevant factors. Just my opinion, I'm not trying to put you or Canada down. As you can see I am not a nationalist (I detest nationalism) and I don't really care for flag waving. Really sorry I offended you.
The taxes you pay in Quebec really go into something and they really do help you save in the long run. Free daycare was mentioned already but you also have simple things like licence renewals, passport renewals, driving exams, etc. that are much, much cheaper than the rest of Canada. Plus you have the lowest tuition rates in Canada. Although gas is expensive, Quebec also has the cheapest car insurance rates in Canada. In Montreal you can get a monthly pass for the best transit system in North America for less than $80, where Calgary's pretty horrible transit will cost you $95/month and Toronto around $120/month. Then don't forget the very cheap rent and housing. All of this ads up and you save a lot more than you would in other cities even when paying these taxes.
It really depends on how much more you pay for taxes and how much you use the services as a result of those higher taxes.. Many would benefit but many would not.. Cheaper rent and transit and yes car insurance I think are pretty strongly in favour for Quebec. Of course I have heard the selection at the LCBO kicks the crap out of the SAQ when it comes to variety and selection
I must say - I was not impressed with SAQ stores in QC vs LCBO stores in Ontario..
and of course - my partner and I would neeeed to find jobs that pay the same in QC lol..
Another thing that sets apart integration in Quebec from English Canada is the language. The form of French that is expected to be learned is very different from the form of French that is known internationally. Français standard is what is utilized in the vast majority of French media. Even in Quebec, many shows are in standard French, including those that are dubbed American shows. The problem with this is that people have virtually no exposure to Quebec French outside of Quebec and it's immediate surrounding regions. To further complicate matters, French teachers in Quebec often mimic standard French to some degree, in order to teach "proper" pronunciation. As a result, international students may be left in the dark when it comes to French as it is spoken by the common inhabitants of Quebec. Newscasters, college professors, and others who are speaking the "proper" form of French (i.e. adjusting the Quebec accent to more resemble a European) are relatively easy to understand, but when it comes to the construction worker, cashier, or plumber on the street, Quebec French can be very difficult to understand.
.
This, I can report, is becoming less and less of an issue. In places like Greater Montreal, and also Gatineau and Sherbrooke and increasingly Quebec City, the growing influx of immigrants not only from France but also from developing countries that have French as a first or second language means that it feels more and more like we are living in some of kind of New World crossroads of the Francophonie. I don't live in Montreal and yet I hear people speaking French with European, Middle Eastern, Caribbean and African accents every single day. Multiple times even.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
