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Excellent insight. You are probably are a type A person that type B people would consider Bipolar or OCD, lol. You have a great grasp of what your mother and brother experience when medicated. Bless you. Bless you all.
"Stable" bipolar people are still bipolar. My brother is bipolar and he's stable.
My point is this - if a person has never been NOT bipolar, even on meds they do not know what people without bipolar disorder feel like. What they know is what a bipolar person with correct meds feels like. There's a difference.
My mom and my brother are both being treated successfully for their Bipolar Disorder 1 but they both complain of feeling "flat." Get this - neither of them "acts" flat. On the correct meds, they both seem to feel well within what I'd consider "normal range" when it comes to emotions and responses. They're not manic, they're not overly anxious, they're not paranoid or delusional, but they also sleep 8 hours a night, they express appropriate emotions, they get up and get going with their days in what seems to me to be totally appropriate ways, etc. They do not seem "flat" to me at all, and yet they both FEEL "flat." My hypothesis is that to a person who is used to the surge of energy that mania imparts, anything less than that feels "flat." Without the mania, they don't feel nearly as creative or "alive." Without the bipolar symptoms, they don't have nearly as wide a fluctuation in their emotions and energy levels. I do think that the meds do change the way they feel fundamentally. From the outside looking in, a good regimen of meds and therapy appears to allow them to feel and behave within normal ranges - but it seems to me that "normal" to them doesn't feel nearly as intense or interesting or creative. It seems to me that my mom particularly forgets that along with the mania comes extreme anxiety and confusion and paranoia.
I have never struggled with bipolar disorder so this is just a guess based on observations. But I will say this - I have always had a very high energy level. What I don't have is depressive or "down" mood swings. I also don't have anxiety or sleep disorders (except for when I have a truly anxiety producing situation, which is very rare). I'm not bipolar but I'm very energetic, project oriented, and fast moving. I have to crank it down when dealing with most people because I will wear someone out if I'm not careful. For instance, when I worked in interior decorating, I would have to constantly remind myself to walk more slowly, talk more slowly when I was meeting with clients in a retail store and I had a vision and wanted to pull it together for them with them in tow. In school and at work, I have always been a very high producer and simply DONE with projects or goals ahead of most people. If I lost that energy, and it was "cranked down" to a more "average" energy or creativity level, I would definitely feel more "flat." I'd feel like I had lost my creative and productive edge, and I'd be put out about it. And I certainly wouldn't want to take meds on a regular basis which took away that energy and creativity.
So I do get where my mother and brother are coming from.
My post was in response to your rhetorical question 'who knows how they really feel?' Well, they do (BP people in general). Your Mom to me is interesting. Because she essentially went her whole life unmediated. I used to think she was addicted to mania and craved having it back, but I don't anymore based on how she is acting medicated now. Which is GREAT.
You hypothesis regarding some BP people feeling flat is a well-known fact in Psychiatry. For some people it is so bad that they can't do their art without their mania. I'm curious to see how Brian Wilson feels about that when I read his book.
Whether they've never known anything but bipolar or not, they still know how they feel. And a good Dr. can distinguish between bemoaning the loss of mania and truly feeling lethargic. I mean, anti-manic meds are sedating. The point, really, of them, so self-reports of such should not be dismissed out of hand.
Excellent insight. You are probably are a type A person that type B people would consider Bipolar or OCD, lol. You have a great grasp of what your mother and brother experience when medicated. Bless you. Bless you all.
I am a very driven person, that's true. I'm also not at all moody and I am a very logical person. This does drive some people pretty crazy (I don't mean that literally). Of course the down side of that is that I'm not very sensitive to subtle nuances from more emotional people. My husband always says to me, "You're a good person, but you're not a sweet person." I think that's pretty accurate!
My post was in response to your rhetorical question 'who knows how they really feel?' Well, they do (BP people in general). Your Mom to me is interesting. Because she essentially went her whole life unmediated. I used to think she was addicted to mania and craved having it back, but I don't anymore based on how she is acting medicated now. Which is GREAT.
You hypothesis regarding some BP people feeling flat is a well-known fact in Psychiatry. For some people it is so bad that they can't do their art without their mania. I'm curious to see how Brian Wilson feels about that when I read his book.
Whether they've never known anything but bipolar or not, they still know how they feel. And a good Dr. can distinguish between bemoaning the loss of mania and truly feeling lethargic. I mean, anti-manic meds are sedating. The point, really, of them, so self-reports of such should not be dismissed out of hand.
I'm not dismissing how anyone feels - just to clarify. What I'm saying is that I don't think that ANYONE knows whether a person with bipolar disorder whose mania is controlled by meds feels NORMAL or feels FLAT. Because what's "normal" anyway? Are people without bipolar disorder really walking around feeling "flat" and we just don't know it?
If so, hell, I'll take "flat" any day. I'm creative enough to suit myself.
I'm not dismissing how anyone feels - just to clarify. Because what's "normal" anyway? Are people without bipolar disorder really walking around feeling "flat" and we just don't know it?
If so, hell, I'll take "flat" any day. I'm creative enough to suit myself.
Maybe by comparison! I told in another thread about a bf that had the 'good' kind of BP. It's not an official sub-type, but an author who was one of the foremost experts on BP in the country uses the term BP2, sub B. These people run hypomanic. In a good way. They need less sleep, they are of superior intelligence, energy, drive, intuition, creativity, etc. and they don't suffer negative highs or lows. They are all over the world as movers and shakers! The kind of people others envy. And charm, lets not forget the ability to charm! They are actors and musicians and high-profile hedge fund managers and politicians and on and on.
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What I'm saying is that I don't think that ANYONE knows whether a person with bipolar disorder whose mania is controlled by meds feels NORMAL or feels FLAT.
Well, again, they know. Most know normal. They were normal until the trigger in their 20's or even later. They have long periods unassisted w/o mania and know that way. My Mom was normal most of the time even pre-diagnosis so she, and all of us knew her normal.
Someone asked in a rep comment that sounds like a personality type and started to ask a question but didn't finish the sentence. It's not just a personality type she is describing. It's bipolar. They meet the criteria due to the hypomania. Often their lows are like anyone else's. My bf would be 'on' the vast majority of the time but then just turn off like a switch. 'Off' meant functioning like a 'normal' person (KA made a good point about what is normal anyway? but I am using the word to distinguish between having a MI and not having one).
Lacking his extra special brain functions, he was a bit of a loss on how to operate on the level of mere mortals. Like, working at the task/problem instead of it just coming natural/automatic. Iron Man operating w/o his suit! (Iron Man is actually rather hypomanic, if you think about it.) That character is actually a good example of BP2, sub B. He goes down a little bit. Doesn't know what to do, and then BAM, his mind was actually working on the issue the whole time in the background, and he flies off in a flurry designing something incredible, seemingly on the fly.
Maybe by comparison! I told in another thread about a bf that had the 'good' kind of BP. It's not an official sub-type, but an author who was one of the foremost experts on BP in the country uses the term BP2, sub B. These people run hypomanic. In a good way. They need less sleep, they are of superior intelligence, energy, drive, intuition, creativity, etc. and they don't suffer negative highs or lows. They are all over the world as movers and shakers! The kind of people others envy. And charm, lets not forget the ability to charm! They are actors and musicians and high-profile hedge fund managers and politicians and on and on.
I'm trying to step back and not be as involved emotionally and in Mom's daily life and it's hard. Yesterday drove that point home.
My mom vacillates between not answering her phone and not calling me for days on end - and calling me often through the week. Lately she's been calling me often. She's bored and she doesn't have my dad around to entertain her, and since her meds have kicked in and she's getting more sleep and eating well, she has more energy.
Now - she goes to outpatient therapy for three full days a week (MWF). She goes to church with me (or us when my husband is home) every Sunday and is out and about from about 8:30 am to about 1:30 pm. That leaves T/Th/Sa that she needs to entertain herself, and she lives in a community that has "entertainment" as it's middle name.
She can walk - she has beautiful gardens and outdoor spaces right outside her door, and we are catching a break in the weather all this week - but in the 7 months she's lived there, she has walked around the garden area exactly one time - and I was with her making her do it. She can read - and she has a library at her fingertips. She can watch TV (though she has never really enjoyed that). She has a cat she loves. She has three meals a day in a nice cafeteria setting with table mates. She COULD go on all sorts of excursions that are booked at the apartments throughout the week. There are games, dances, performing folks, etc. each week.
But she doesn't get involved in any of that. Not a smidgen of it, apparently. She doesn't make friends easily so that's part of her problem.
So she basically hangs on the hope that I'll come by and do something with her during the week, and then of course spend most of Sunday with her. But I am not her "Dad replacement."
Plus she's just so unpleasant so much of the time. Get this - you know, I may have mentioned that my dad had saved a stash of her crazy emails and letters to him over the years. My gosh, they were awful. He had hidden them in a secret drawer in a filing cabinet. They were just the most cruel, ridiculing, paranoid, ranting letters you could ever read. Now - all the time she was writing these, she was fluctuating between those horrible letters, and using the crap out of my dad - for financial support, for entertainment, to drive her anywhere she wanted or needed to go, etc etc. Wow. My smart, funny, easygoing, affectionate dad - she rode him like he was an old mule. And he was just as much a part of the problem as she was because he tolerated her ranting behavior, and enabled it in fact.
Well, she has basically the same approach with me - somewhat tempered though because I absolutely will not put up with the level of BS my dad apparently put up with for decades. But it sits right below the surface, simmering. It's so much a part of her personality that even when she's got it reined in, you know it's right there. She makes veiled comments, innuendos, and even outright insults (all of which I just get tired of pushing back on, though I do it occasionally) constantly. She also totally denies any issues she's having with memory or confusion or trouble with vision, that sort of thing, so it's very difficult to help her. For instance, she is still confused about time but I can't talk with her about that - she often calls me and says stuff about "well, I'm just waiting on that darn bus and it's taking forever to get here," and when I say, "Well, the bus is coming tomorrow," invariably she immediately snaps back, "Well, I know that," or (my personal favorite) "Of course it is - I'm not an idiot. My goodness, Kathryn, you always think the worst of people, don't you? You've always been such an exaggerator."
The last several times we've been out and about, she's left her cane somewhere in a store and I've had to go back looking for it. She leaves it because though it helps her with balance, she is strong enough to walk without it so if she gets sidetracked, she may put it down and then just wander off. Luckily I found it both times pretty quickly, but I see a pattern I don't like developing here. Yesterday, she left it in the bathroom. Along with the cane propped against the wall, I found her unflushed toilet - and her belt floating in the toilet. SHEEZE.
Thank God one end of the belt was hanging out of the toilet - I pulled it out, flushed the toilet, and washed the belt off. Now - we're in a restaurant, waiting for our food. Believe me, this is unappetizing to say the least. I go back out there, hand her the cane and the wet belt, and whispered to her, "Mom. Please - you have to do better than this. I found your belt floating in pee in the toilet." She just shrugged. This is actually an improvement - she often says something along the lines of "Well, la dee da - you're not perfect either."
Honestly, maybe she can't help it. You'd just have to be around her and watch her operate - she is so careless and sloppy and destructive. But her apartment is SUPER neat now - and you know why? The administrator went and talked with her and told her that if she didn't keep it cleaner and neater, she was going to have to move out. So it's important to her to keep it clean - and she does it. So I don't know...it's very difficult to sort out what she can and cannot actually do.
For decades now, she's been the type to just tear open a box just however she wants - without looking for the perforated edges or opening. She's just a destructive, feral sort of person and it's getting worse. I don't know how else to describe it. But it's not pleasant to be around, that's for sure.
My husband was shocked because he had ordered a bowl of queso for the whole table. Well, after a few minutes of messing with it, my mom just suddenly grabbed a bunch of chips, crumpled them up, and dropped them in the bowl, and then started putting her fingers all in the bowl. My husband said, "You just messed that up for the rest of us." My mom said, "Oh, I most certainly did not." Needless to say, no one else wanted the queso. After a few minutes, my mom just pulled the whole bowl in front of her and it became hers.
I had told my husband about trying to share a dessert with her last week - I ended up just giving up, because the idea of sharing something neatly and politely is something she just can't do. So from here on out, no sharing with her unless she puts her portion or I put my portion in a separate dish. I know that option is always available but I just don't usually do that with my friends or family. Oh well. Note to self.
By the way, I totally realize how petty I sound.
It's just that emotionally, I can't seem to get past the yearning to enjoy my mom's company just a little bit instead of every single interaction being emotionally draining. Now - she DOES say to me every single time before I leave, "I appreciate you taking me shopping," or whatever. That's nice and polite - but she's been saying that for decades. But honestly, it's all the other stuff that happens before that that is so frustrating.
I know how my dad must have felt the last decade or so of his life. See, at one time, my mom was truly beautiful. She was vivacious, energetic, and very creative. I'm sure she was also very passionate sexually with my dad - in fact, I'm sure of it because she expressed that to me pretty often (her frustration because my elderly dad's "sexual energy" didn't match hers - UGH - sorry, I didn't want to hear that!). Anyway, over time her beauty faded. Her creativity became actually cloying, because she talked about it and bragged about herself CONSTANTLY (she still does that). Her energy became tiresome, because it became more and more manic and obsessive. Her vivacity developed a cruel, sarcastic edge to it. Well, I think that element has always been there, but she controlled it less and less over time. With my dad, anyway - with me, she has been more controlled since I called her hand on it and "retrained" her about 25 years ago, after going to counseling to learn about the amazing concept of personal boundaries. But it's been a constant battle to keep those boundaries in place with her. She resents the hell out of them.
But I guess my dad always yearned for that woman that he knew she could be. And I can relate because I see glimpses of the beautiful mother that I admired when I was a kid, and the creative, energetic woman I knew as an adult, someone who was usually emotionally taxing to me, but who had a creative energy that was also compelling and sometimes fun to be around. She's always been difficult but she's been a bit of an enigma. But that enigmatic quality is nearly gone, and it's not coupled with positive anymore.
So it's difficult and sort of depressing to be around her. And then I feel badly for her, because I think "She can't help it," but then I realize I've been excusing her bad behavior with that phrase since I was seven years old and I'm just sick of it. And now, because she will not get involved with anyone or anything else, I'm all she has - and I don't want to be all she has. I don't want her to rely on just me for entertainment purposes. But no one else really wants to be around her - not without me there, anyway. And she doesn't want to entertain anyone else without me being right there either.
So my whole fantasy of her moving into a senior apartment complex, making new friends, going shopping with them, eating out with them, enjoying movie night or other activities with them - that's a pipe dream that's not going to happen. Instead, she sits around waiting for the bus, or waiting for me to show up, and then she is clingy to me - but not in a sweet way if that makes sense. She's clingy in an abrasive way.
AUGH!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 07-31-2017 at 06:26 AM..
One thing I am so, so, so grateful to my dad for though is setting enough money aside for her long term care. I guess he knew I MEANT it when I told him many years ago that I would never allow Mom to move in with me. So unlike some caregivers, I do have the luxury of dropping her off and going home to my pleasant home and husband and healthier relationships with friends and family. I am so glad I was also able to go to counseling for a few months - and that I have a husband who didn't begrudge that money and time spent, who actually encouraged me - and that the counselor reminded me to focus on the healthy, balanced people in my life first and foremost.
That's been THE BIGGEST lesson I've learned in all this - that we cannot allow the needs and demands of unhealthy, unhappy, unbalanced people to dominate our lives.
So I drop Mom off and spend time with other people and in my own peaceful, balanced, clean home - but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I feel sad when I think of her lonely neediness and her awkward, weird attempts at social interaction. I guess I'm not as balanced emotionally as I'd like to think I am, because there's an undercurrent of sadness and self doubt that I feel every minute of every day. I remind myself that I'm not responsible for my mother's happiness, and that she's in a safe, clean, secure environment with all sorts of entertainment she could avail herself of, but inside there's a constant nagging feeling of "Should I do more for her? Should I call her up and go get her?"
See, a few weeks ago, the weather was gorgeous and my husband and I planned to work in the backyard all day - I was going to go to the nursery and buy a lot of shrubs and then plant them in our backyard. We have a very pleasant patio area with comfortable seating and nice, filtered light and the weather was perfect, birds were singing, etc. I said, "I'm going to call Mom and see if she wants to go with me to the nursery and then come hang out and drink iced tea while we work in the yard - she loves plants and used to love to do yardwork and sitting outside in this beautiful weather may be just the thing she needs." So I called her and ran the plan past her and she said this: "Why would you think I'd be interested in doing that? I have no interest whatsoever in sitting around outside in your backyard." Well, alrighty then. Off the hook on that one! So we went about our day, enjoyed it thoroughly, and about 4 pm, when we were both filthy, tired, and ready to get cleaned up and relax, my mom called and said, "Hey. You had an idea earlier - you wanted to get together? I'd like to do that." I said, "Mom, that was 8 hours ago that I called - I'm done for the day and about to shower and relax." "Ohhhh, OK..." she said, clearly disappointed. See, my mom didn't want to do anything that wasn't revolving around HER - I'm sure she wanted to go shopping and out to eat, but that wasn't happening.
So Saturday, my husband and I had a very pleasant day planned - we were going to make homemade pasta, which is easy but takes a lot of time and makes a HUGE mess (SO MUCH FUN THOUGH) and then we were going to make a marinara sauce from scratch, and make a wine/club soda/ice drink that's super refreshing, and we were going to sit around in the cool AC and maybe watch a movie or something while we ate our delicious meal. The weather here Saturday was hot hot hot - too hot to get outside and enjoy it. I thought about inviting my mom over - but then I thought, "You know - screw it. First of all, I can just hear her saying why on earth would I think she'd be interested in that - she doesn't even like Italian food. But on top of that - and the most important thing - my husband and I need a relaxed, pleasant day enjoying ourselves together - and we will see her for hours on Sunday." So I didn't do it. And I felt bad about not including her.
See, that's my problem - feeling bad. Feeling conflicted. Feeling like I'm not doing enough for her. But I'm operating from a normal base - where normal people get together and have pleasant conversations and laugh together making pasta and sharing a bottle of wine. This is not how things go down with my mom. When my dad was around, we did this sort of thing - and I could ignore my mom's behavior, or it was at least offset by my dad's fun loving humor and good conversation. Now that's gone and all that's left is my mom's acerbic personality.
I can't tell you how much I'm dreading the holidays.
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