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Atlanta is made up of a LOT of nearby areas and the greater Atlanta population is around 6.1 million.
Colorado Springs, with surrounding areas, is around 600,000.
The same is true of Charlotte. Charlotte proper has roughly 800,000 people in it. The greater area has almost 2.5 million.
Metro numbers should not be used to define whether a place is a city or not.
That Atlanta population is over a 10,000+ square mile area and runs into Alabama. There are people who live in this metro that never see the city of Atlanta and have nothing to do with it. Likewise Charlotte's is close to 6000 and I think we'd all agree there are people in this metro that never come into CLT or have anything to do with it. I don't know if the new definition includes Iredell or not, but drive north of I-40 and it's as rural as it gets.
With that said, I think CLT could be considered a 2nd tier Sunbelt city. The first tier being Atlanta, Miami, Houston, Dallas and possibly Phoenix. Charlotte, Orlando, Nashville, Austin, Tampa, I would consider 2nd tier and peers with each other. Of that group, in terms of offering a lot of progressive cultural options, I'd place Austin at the top of the list.
Last edited by WaldoKitty; 05-07-2014 at 04:37 AM..
I wasn't implying that the numbers defined cities, just saying that the differences should be noted.
Living in Seattle is far different than living in Charlotte and yet the cities have relatively the same population per city. In fact, Charlotte's population is higher than Seattle.
The greater area determines the congestion, the feel, and the "real population" as it refers to actually living situations.
Dawn
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty
Metro numbers should not be used to define whether a place is a city or not.
That Atlanta population is over a 10,000+ square mile area and runs into Alabama. There are people who live in this metro that never see the city of Atlanta and have nothing to do with it. Likewise Charlotte's is close to 6000 and I think we'd all agree there are people in this metro that never come into CLT or have anything to do with it. I don't know if the new definition includes Iredell or not, but drive north of I-40 and it's as rural as it gets.
With that said, I think CLT could be considered a 2nd tier Sunbelt city. The first tier being Atlanta, Miami, Houston, Dallas and possibly Phoenix. Charlotte, Orlando, Nashville, Austin, Tampa, I would consider 2nd tier and peers with each other. Of that group, in terms of offering a lot of progressive cultural options, I'd place Austin at the top of the list.
City populations mean absolutely nothing, unless discussing things that matter to the political boundaries of the city proper. Metro areas are the best indicator of size - and metro, not consolidated metros that throw in far fringe areas - only very large areas like LA and the Bay area do consolidated metros make more sense than metro numbers.
Charlotte's metro is about 1.8 million and will likely pass 2 million by 2020.
Colorado Springs is under 700,000.
Atlanta is 5.5 million
Now, how urban an area is varies. People do not = urban design, infrastructure or "feel"
All cities have some amount of it, but for its size, Atlanta isn't a great urban, big city.
New Orleans, which is much smaller, is much more dense, urban and lively.
We are not 1.8 million and we hit that 2 million plus for 2020 a decade early.
The Charlotte-Concord-Gastonia, NC-SC Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) is defined as seven counties in North Carolina and three counties in South Carolina. The population of the MSA was 2,335,358 according to 2013 Census estimates.
Charlotte is the 17th largest city and 23rd largest metro area in the United States. Charlotte is the 2nd largest city in the Southeast.
The Charlotte-Concord Combined Statistical Area is a regional population area including parts of North Carolina and South Carolina with a population of 2,442,504 according to the 2012 Census estimates.
Oh, ok, excuse me, counties were added last year and now the population is higher.
Quote:
we hit that 2 million plus for 2020 a decade early.
What does that even mean? I simply made trending statement based on the metro population (apparently as defined before 2013 in terms of counties). What does "early" (or "late") have to do with it?
The point is that (again) cities populations are absolutely meaningless because many cities have tiny political boundaries and many have sprawling boundaries, so looking at metro areas is much more accurate.
Does it mean anything that Jacksonville is the "largest" city in FL. Can anyway take that as any serious, accurate description of the city? Or that San Diego is "bigger" than San Francisco? Or that all of these cities and many others like San Antonio are "bigger" than Atlanta, Boston and Washington?
No problem man. It's just people keep going off old information and some think that Charlotte is small and that's not the case. Like me a lot of my post are about development, population increase, mass transit, and were trying to be that major city and we are. Behind the big 4 were number 5 a distant number 5 (to some )but were slowly moving closer to saying Yes we are number 5 in the south and pulling away from mid tier status city's.
No problem man. It's just people keep going off old information and some think that Charlotte is small and that's not the case.....
But it seems small minded when sprawling metro numbers are quoted when they are particularly meaningless in the context of what is being asked. They do little to define what's actually in the core city and what it is like to live there.
The urban part of Charlotte gets a C+ from me. I think there has been too much focus on building skyscrapers and not enough on more infill development, in city small business, and of course there is a big lack of retail in the center city. Maybe that will change more over time.
I think there has been too much focus on building skyscrapers and not enough on more infill development, in city small business, and of course there is a big lack of retail in the center city. Maybe that will change more over time.
It is changing. North Charlotte (NoDa and area between 77, 85, Tryon and W. Sugar Creek) will be the next SouthEnd in a decade, and SouthEnd is quickly filling out. South Park is adding more midrise-highrise development over the next 5 years. Now East Charlotte (Plaza-midwood and beyond) is adding mid-rise development. If the street car expansion gets complete funding (which many believe it definitely will), than East-West Charlotte could possibly grow exponentially.
It is changing. North Charlotte (NoDa and area between 77, 85, Tryon and W. Sugar Creek) will be the next SouthEnd in a decade, and SouthEnd is quickly filling out. South Park is adding more midrise-highrise development over the next 5 years. Now East Charlotte (Plaza-midwood and beyond) is adding mid-rise development. If the street car expansion gets complete funding (which many believe it definitely will), than East-West Charlotte could possibly grow exponentially.
Charlotte decimated Tryon St during urban renewal so it lost out on the primary historic strip that would've been comparable to Greensboro's Elm St. So now it's retrofitting areas which makes it rather costly to develop affording buildings that could support small shops, boutiques, etc in the center city. The city needed a entertainment venue like Epicentre, however I wish it'd been a throw-back design with a mini-street feel, brick, patios, interior water feature, etc. I like the Epicentre but opportunity missed in my opinion.
I think light rail may very well have revived and rescued urban Charlotte - or at minimal expedited it's urbanization. The city is set to transform into a new south urban model if you can keep the corporate heads out of the planning...everything ain't got to be grand and "transformative".
I good metric for assessing the urban feel or size of a city is the urbanized area (UA) population and metro size (MSA). Compare the two or ratio...large urbanized areas. Although some smaller cities will have a solid urban core (Charleston, Richmond, New Orleans, etc), they don't feel as large as Atlanta because it encompasses many more urban pockets.
Charlotte's MSA is 2.3 million but urbanize area is 1.2 million and ranked 38th. In my opinion, the city is set to explode urban wise primarily due to light rail. From this perspective, I could see the city moving into the 20s and maybe the teens in the next 15-20 years...it's going to take a hefty investment infrastructure wise as well to support that change...then maybe, it will feel more major city-ish.
Last edited by Big Aristotle; 05-09-2014 at 09:49 AM..
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