Is Berwyn truly integrated, or are we experiencing white flight? (Chicago: lawyers, homes)

[CityToBurbs75]

Lifelongchicagoland,

My wife and I have moved to Berwyn in 2011, specifically south Berwyn, Proksa Park area. Since that time, there's been a lot of new businesses opening in Berwyn and surrounding areas, and lots of young couples from the city moving in. Things are happening faster than we thought.

We take our son to a home daycare in North Berwyn, and I have to say, it doesn't seem like that part of town is trending the same way. The new businesses on Roosevelt are a sign of gentrification, but a lot of their customers are coming from Oak Park (and some, like us, from south Berwyn). I'm happy with our decision to move to Berwyn, but it does seem to somewhat a tale of two cities, north and south. If you moved to Berwyn for gentrification, you got the town right, but picked the wrong side.

[BRU67]

Whether that's correct or not, I'd caution against viewing it as two cities or, especially, encouraging segregation on that ground. No one except insiders is going to make the distinction, which will cause property values all over to suffer should the schools or crime on one end continue to decline.

Back in 2000, South Berwyn D100 was 33% low income and 44% Hispanic, while North Berwyn D98 was 63% low income and 58% Hispanic.

By 2014, D100 was 73% low income and 82% Hispanic, while D98 was 85% low income and 82% Hispanic.

This hard data would suggest that South Berwyn has been trending more towards North Berwyn than pulling off into gentrification. Sure, it's got pretty houses, and there's been some business development (throw enough TIF money at businesses and they'll come) but the schools remain a real serious issue.

I recommend that my successor Berwyn boosters encourage middle class families to move to either North or South Berwyn because they are similar AND send their kids to the public schools, and do the same themselves.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by treemoni

Poor people deserve to have affordable housing like everyone else.


...but it is not an "urban phenomenon", it's a public policy PROBLEM and yes, it's is up to the government to fix. People love the government (these are the folks who bring you nice services in DuPage county, for example) until the government assists those they deem unworthy. Then it's all "stop asking for handouts". Disgusting.

Guess my copy of the constitution left off the part about "every gets a house they can afford".
There is a HUGE difference between saying that policies cannot be crafted to discriminate on the basis of race, religion, sex orientation and saying that there is some need for the government to "fix" housing afforability issues.

[aga412]

Originally Posted by chet everett

Guess my copy of the constitution left off the part about "every gets a house they can afford".
There is a HUGE difference between saying that policies cannot be crafted to discriminate on the basis of race, religion, sex orientation and saying that there is some need for the government to "fix" housing afforability issues.

chet, we don't always agree on things, but I am 100% with you on this one!

[ToriaT]

There are some nice areas north of Cermak Road such as the so called "Gold Coast". And Roosevelt Road looked really nice last year with the flower plantings, etc. I often grab a quick lunch at the Culvers. Keep in mind one thing. Every suburb, even upscale ones such as Wheaton and Glen Ellyn has low income apartments. Berwyn just might have more of them because they have so many multifamily building especially north of Cermak Rd. There are less apartment buildings on the South side of Berwyn. If anyone is buying a single family home in Berwyn, I would recommend buying in a block where its all single family homes. There is greater chance the properties will be kept up better. My buiding is in a block mixed of two flats and single family homes. The non resident landlords don't keep the buildings up as well. I've had to pick up trash from my neighbors laws because they are not there and it blows into mine. Some of the landlords are just milking the building for rent and visit infrequently.

[CityToBurbs75]

Originally Posted by BRU67

Whether that's correct or not, I'd caution against viewing it as two cities or, especially, encouraging segregation on that ground. No one except insiders is going to make the distinction, which will cause property values all over to suffer should the schools or crime on one end continue to decline.

Back in 2000, South Berwyn D100 was 33% low income and 44% Hispanic, while North Berwyn D98 was 63% low income and 58% Hispanic.

By 2014, D100 was 73% low income and 82% Hispanic, while D98 was 85% low income and 82% Hispanic.

This hard data would suggest that South Berwyn has been trending more towards North Berwyn than pulling off into gentrification. Sure, it's got pretty houses, and there's been some business development (throw enough TIF money at businesses and they'll come) but the schools remain a real serious issue.

I recommend that my successor Berwyn boosters encourage middle class families to move to either North or South Berwyn because they are similar AND send their kids to the public schools, and do the same themselves.

BRU67,

The OP is asking if his specific neighborhood near Cuyler and 13th is experiencing white flight. And my answer is: NO. White flight already happened to Berwyn in the last couple decades. Pretty much everyone who felt they needed to flee the "Hispanic takeover" is gone. It was way more drastic in the north side, which I drive thru every day and seldom see a white face besides our daycare provider.

The OP's other question involves gentrification, will his neighborhood be "turning over" soon, and my answer to that is also NO. White Flight happened throughout the city, but was more drastic in the north, where there's a ton of rental property and demographic change doesn't require a home sale.

Where I am seeing a ton of new white residents is around my neighborhood near Proksa Park, at local restaurants and stores, and on the Metra platform. The school district numbers you pulled off of BERWYN SOUTH SD 100: District Profile are accurate, but there's a subtext. Most of this new wave of white residents do not have school-aged children. I for one have a 1-year-old. My neighbors across the street have a 1 and 3 year old, another couple have a newborn and a 2 year old. I'm not saying those Berwyn South school district numbers are going to magically transform in a couple of years, but these numbers will start changing to reflect the recent demographic changes happening in south Berwyn.

While I applaud your "boostering" of Berwyn, I'm just telling the OP what I've observed in my 4 years here, and I honestly don't see the corner of 13th and Cuyler "improving" in the way he wants it to, anytime soon. Take a walk around 31st and Home, and take a walk around 16th and Home. Then tell me these neighborhoods are exactly the same. I like my new home, and I'm a proud Berwyner, but I'm not going to lie to people about North Berwyn being the same as South Berwyn, when that's not my experience. Being disingenuous to get people to move here doesn't help anyone's cause.

[treemoni]

Originally Posted by chet everett

Guess my copy of the constitution left off the part about "every gets a house they can afford".
There is a HUGE difference between saying that policies cannot be crafted to discriminate on the basis of race, religion, sex orientation and saying that there is some need for the government to "fix" housing afforability issues.

What does the Constitution have to do with this conversation?

LOL, some of you think mentioning the Constitution really amplifies your argument. Do you even KNOW what the Constitution--the entire thing--says?? Probably not. Move left. I don't have time for people who deliberately misunderstand.

[treemoni]

Originally Posted by CityToBurbs75

experience. Being disingenuous to get people to move here doesn't help anyone's cause.

Neither does promoting segregation, which is what City-Data posters (the majority of whom belong to a certain group) are very good at.

[treemoni]

p.s. I hope those of you who love to tout "The Constitution" realize it makes you look exactly like the person you're trying so hard not to be.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by CityToBurbs75

BRU67,

Most of this new wave of white residents do not have school-aged children. I for one have a 1-year-old. My neighbors across the street have a 1 and 3 year old, another couple have a newborn and a 2 year old. I'm not saying those Berwyn South school district numbers are going to magically transform in a couple of years, but these numbers will start changing to reflect the recent demographic changes happening in south Berwyn.

Great! Hopefully you and your neighbors will be part of that change. And then spread the word!

Originally Posted by CityToBurbs75

While I applaud your "boostering" of Berwyn, I'm just telling the OP what I've observed in my 4 years here, and I honestly don't see the corner of 13th and Cuyler "improving" in the way he wants it to, anytime soon. Take a walk around 31st and Home, and take a walk around 16th and Home. Then tell me these neighborhoods are exactly the same. I like my new home, and I'm a proud Berwyner, but I'm not going to lie to people about North Berwyn being the same as South Berwyn, when that's not my experience. Being disingenuous to get people to move here doesn't help anyone's cause.

I don't think what I said is any more disingenuous than saying south Berwyn is gentrifying. Demographic data from the schools establishes that north and south have been becoming demographically similar for quite awhile. Berwyn has always had people like yourself attracted to it, but the trouble has always been that those folks move when their kids reach school age (or sometimes use private schools), which has prevented gentrification from really taking hold.

I think the city has potential, but until residents like you and your neighbors start taking the chance on the schools, it'll have a hard time realizing that potential.