Gentrification speading from Core: South Side & West Side (Chicago: crime rate, closing)

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

The north side is pretty much entirely gentrified. There are pockets of Uptown and Rogers Park that haven't flipped, but they're literal islands in a sea of gentrified neighborhoods.

I agree it'll be slow, but it'll happen. There are a lot of vacant parcels in Bronzeville and the surrounding areas that'll get built out first. Easily a few decades out.

This could happen but the City's economy will have to grow considerably. And if it does, people often make the mistake of thinking gentrification moves in a "linear" progression. It does sometimes, but not always.

I could see Bronzeville gentrifying to some degree due to its reputation, proximity to the Loop, and new construction which may draw wealthy right out of the box. But I think a lot of the higher crime south side neighborhoods are going to need some kind of "artificial" urban renewal before you'll see anything take hold there. For all their talk about equality and that love trumps hate, the young urban progressive types who seed gentrification are not moving into the predominantly African-American high poverty, high crime neighborhoods on the south and west sides. They are skipping over them in favor of places like Bridgeport (white working class/Asian), Pilsen and east Little Village (Mexican), and the Latino-majority portions of Humboldt Park on the east side of that community area.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by BRU67

This could happen but the City's economy will have to grow considerably. And if it does, people often make the mistake of thinking gentrification moves in a "linear" progression. It does sometimes, but not always.

I could see Bronzeville gentrifying to some degree due to its reputation, proximity to the Loop, and new construction which may draw wealthy right out of the box. But I think a lot of the higher crime south side neighborhoods are going to need some kind of "artificial" urban renewal before you'll see anything take hold there. For all their talk about equality and that love trumps hate, the young urban progressive types who seed gentrification are not moving into the predominantly African-American high poverty, high crime neighborhoods on the south and west sides. They are skipping over them in favor of places like Bridgeport (white working class/Asian), Pilsen and east Little Village (Mexican), and the Latino-majority portions of Humboldt Park on the east side of that community area.

Bronzeville is unique in that it's surrounded by stable or affluent communities, so I think it'll flip. I'd liken it to Uptown but with considerable levels of abandonment. Uptown is still a little rough around the edges, but it's built out and populated. Bronzeville is not. It'll start to fill in as the South Loop becomes more of a destination and U of C/IIT continue to expand in the area.

I agree the younger crowd tends to stay away from places like EGP, but I think the area around the United Center has a real shot at filling in which will ultimately push development further west. Even if Chicagoland continues to decline in population, I think we'll continue to see infill development in the core.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Bronzeville is unique in that it's surrounded by stable or affluent communities, so I think it'll flip. I'd liken it to Uptown but with considerable levels of abandonment. Uptown is still a little rough around the edges, but it's built out and populated. Bronzeville is not. It'll start to fill in as the South Loop becomes more of a destination and U of C/IIT continue to expand in the area.

I agree the younger crowd tends to stay away from places like EGP, but I think the area around the United Center has a real shot at filling in which will ultimately push development further west. Even if Chicagoland continues to decline in population, I think we'll continue to see infill development in the core.

Definitely the area around UC will continue to grow. The portion of the Near West Side between Western, Racine, Madison and the Eisenhower was very slow to glom onto the renaissance of the West Loop. But there's been some real change there in the last half decade. Pete's Fresh Market's flagship store at Madison and Western was a huge anchor, and there are some beautiful homes in that immediate area which are starting to be restored. It's a very convenient place to live if you work downtown or go to school at UIC or Rush.

Uptown's more or less a done deal. That'll continue to improve. The only reason it took as long as it did was because of the prior Alderman.

[Larry Siegel]

Originally Posted by dlong1991

As a white dude who grew up in the south suburbs but has spent most of my time in Chicago on the South and West sides, in my mind, that southern line in the sand for gentrification is 47th street.

...the lakefront south of 47th Street being almost completely gentrified already. It's called Hyde Park, or Hyde Park/Kenwood, or the University of Chicago. (Farther west, there does seem to be a line at 47th.)

There's no line in the sand; since the 1970s gentrification on the north side jumped over Halsted, then Ashland, then Damen, and now Western in some places - all no-go areas at one time (yes, Halsted, seriously). In Logan Square it is even west of Kedzie.

But most gentrifiers will want to be close to the lake, and South Side land is cheap, so gentrifiers can go where the pastures are greenest. I think that development will spread south along the lakefront into South Shore, and north to close the gap between Kenwood and McCormick Place (this gap is mostly closed already), before it spreads west.

[MillennialUrbanist]

Originally Posted by Larry Siegel

There's no line in the sand; since the 1970s gentrification on the north side jumped over Halsted, then Ashland, then Damen, and now Western in some places - all no-go areas at one time (yes, Halsted, seriously). In Logan Square it is even west of Kedzie.

Halsted? Try Wacker! Back when I was in middle school or even high school (1990's), I remember hearing how the area around Union Station was a no-man's land. Anyone from my school who went downtown always said to stay in the Magnificent Mile or near the Art Institute. (It was a suburban high school, which kind of speaks for itself, lol.)

Now, the area looks very vibrant and clean-cut. I've stumbled from bars in the West Loop to catch the last Metra train out, and I felt totally safe. I even saw young women waiting by themselves at bus stops. (Obviously, I still kept my wits about me the best I could.)

[Larry Siegel]

Originally Posted by MillennialUrbanist

Halsted? Try Wacker! Back when I was in middle school or even high school (1990's), I remember hearing how the area around Union Station was a no-man's land. Anyone from my school who went downtown always said to stay in the Magnificent Mile or near the Art Institute. (It was a suburban high school, which kind of speaks for itself, lol.)

Now, the area looks very vibrant and clean-cut. I've stumbled from bars in the West Loop to catch the last Metra train out, and I felt totally safe. I even saw young women waiting by themselves at bus stops. (Obviously, I still kept my wits about me the best I could.)

All the way downtown, the line was at about Wacker but in Lincoln Park it was somewhere around Halsted.

[midwest1]

Originally Posted by Larry Siegel

...the lakefront south of 47th Street being almost completely gentrified already. It's called Hyde Park, or Hyde Park/Kenwood, or the University of Chicago. (Farther west, there does seem to be a line at 47th.)

There's no line in the sand; since the 1970s gentrification on the north side jumped over Halsted, then Ashland, then Damen, and now Western in some places - all no-go areas at one time (yes, Halsted, seriously). In Logan Square it is even west of Kedzie.

But most gentrifiers will want to be close to the lake, and South Side land is cheap, so gentrifiers can go where the pastures are greenest. I think that development will spread south along the lakefront into South Shore, and north to close the gap between Kenwood and McCormick Place (this gap is mostly closed already), before it spreads west.

Even across the state line, the Robertsdale area of Hammond and Whiting are seeing gentrification, especially Whiting.

The urban fabric of the south lakefront extends well into Indiana and the revival of those communities can only help neighborhoods like South Chicago and South Shore. I recently heard large investment companies are snapping up South Shore apartment buildings. And then there is the South Works site, recently purchased by the Spanish development company that is credited with Barcelona's redevelopment in the 80's/90's

The South shall rise again.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by midwest1

Even across the state line, the Robertsdale area of Hammond and Whiting are seeing gentrification, especially Whiting.

The urban fabric of the south lakefront extends well into Indiana and the revival of those communities can only help neighborhoods like South Chicago and South Shore. I recently heard large investment companies are snapping up South Shore apartment buildings. And then there is the South Works site, recently purchased by the Spanish development company that is credited with Barcelona's redevelopment in the 80's/90's

The South shall rise again.

I agree entirely. The south side lakefront neighborhoods have a lot of redevelopment potential.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

I agree entirely. The south side lakefront neighborhoods have a lot of redevelopment potential.

Yea, I think so, too.

Somewhat related, I'm still disappointed that the Obama Library is being built in Woodlawn which seems like it would have a pretty direct pathway to gentrifying without its presence (and for taking up existing parkland instead of creating new parkland).

Aside from the lakefront, the other reasonable pathway for gentrification is following the mass transit lines. I would have loved it if the library were being built on that sparse lots encompassed by Garfield, Calumet, E 54th Street, and MLK Drive (and closing off E 54th Place) across the street from Washington Park on one side and the Garfield Green Line on the other.

[oddstray]

Originally Posted by MillennialUrbanist

Halsted? Try Wacker! Back when I was in middle school or even high school (1990's), I remember hearing how the area around Union Station was a no-man's land. Anyone from my school who went downtown always said to stay in the Magnificent Mile or near the Art Institute. (It was a suburban high school, which kind of speaks for itself, lol.)

Now, the area looks very vibrant and clean-cut. I've stumbled from bars in the West Loop to catch the last Metra train out, and I felt totally safe. I even saw young women waiting by themselves at bus stops. (Obviously, I still kept my wits about me the best I could.)

I worked not far from Union Station in the 70's. It wasn't as pretty as downtown, but it wasn't at all a no-man's land. Unless it got much worse before it got better, I'm pretty sure you were given an exaggerated version of Wacker.