Chicago crime thread: Place all crime-related posts here

[Master Jay]

ChiGuy2.5,

I hear what you're saying. And as you know I respect your opinion, and Thank You once again for your sharing!

[Ralph_Kirk]

Originally Posted by Master Jay

Good morning,

I could really appreciate you all helping me calm my nerves, team!

Did I see this correctly? A young woman is attacked by a man, and YES with a gun, and mere feet from them is a guy sitting on the grass who just watches, shifts in his seat, turns away a bit, and continues to watch?!?

I've had guns pointed at me before, in uniform and out. And I carry a gun today.

But how I'd react in a situation depends entirely on the details of the situation. Having just searched for and seen a link, in that situation you're expecting the man to just be a bullet-sponge for the sake of the woman's telephone. If he'd shouted, "Give him the damned phone!" that would have been about the most positive contribution he could have made to that particular situation.

Contrary to popular opinion, males are not instinctive protectors of all women. A man might be inclined to protect "his own" women--wife, daughter, mother--but there is no natural instinct in a man to place his life in jeopardy to protect every random woman.

First, the social ethic of protecting women was never "men protect all women," it was "gentlemen protect ladies." In England, it was a strict function of social class: "Gentleman" and "lady" explicitly denoted members of the aristocracy. In the more democratized atmosphere of the US, anyone who behaved like a "gentleman" or a "lady" was treated as one...but a woman had to behave like a "lady" to be afforded the protection of a man willing to behave as a "gentleman." It wasn't much different outside Europe: Certain women got protection by certain men. Nowhere has there been a natural "protect all women" male characteristic.

Further, that "gentlemen protect ladies" ethic was a specific product of patriarchy. It was patriarchy that taught and enforced "gentlemen protect ladies" to each generation. It's not natural. A boy must be raised into it. If there is no patriarchy to teach it, it won't be there.

[Master Jay]

RobertRipley,

I appreciate your sensitivity and empathic nature. The world needs much more of that, as you can see.

I have been trained under Koreans half my life. As you approach your 60, keep in mind that the 60 year birthday, the Hwan Gab, is considered a high honor in Korean culture.

Peace with you, also!

[Master Jay]

RobertRipley, what a tragic story you shared in your 3rd post.

And I understand the impact it had on you, and I am very sorry to hear this

If you ever need to talk, reach out. In addition to teaching Tae Kwon Do, my training is in Counseling.

Take care. EVERYONE!

[Master Jay]

Ralph_Kirk, good afternoon.

Thank you for your historic presentation.

And for me, your last statement was a great and strong conclusion: What we learn, or NOT learn, about life, comes from the "home."

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk

Further, that "gentlemen protect ladies" ethic was a specific product of patriarchy. It was patriarchy that taught and enforced "gentlemen protect ladies" to each generation. It's not natural. A boy must be raised into it. If there is no patriarchy to teach it, it won't be there.

Thank you for saying this + the rest of your comment. These "real men" and "girls (note how they infantilize us even when we're grown adults) need protecting" attitudes are problematic for BOTH men and women. It should simply be "humans" looking out for each other, but neither male nor female should be expected to put their own lives on the line to protect another. Nor should it be assumed that just because one has a uterus, they are incapable of defending themselves.

That being said, it's easy to say you would step up in a situation like this - but you don't know how you'll react until you're there, and I would never expect a man to step in front of an armed assailant for me. Especially if they were a stranger. We can only count on ourselves, and hopefully law enforcement when they're needed/called.

[Toxic Waltz]

I know this is Chicago and not New York but the way Daniel Penny is being treated in NYC has given many men pause when it comes to intervening on people's behalf. Try to step up and defend someone and it can be your life that is ruined.

[xray731]

Originally Posted by Toxic Waltz

I know this is Chicago and not New York but the way Daniel Penny is being treated in NYC has given many men pause when it comes to intervening on people's behalf. Try to step up and defend someone and it can be your life that is ruined.

I was going to say the same thing - the way heroes or those standing up and protecting others are being treated these days - I think anyone would pause to think of the repercussions that they may incur if they intervene - no matter how good their intentions.

In the old days, I thought nothing of grabbing a couple of youths by the scruff of their necks to break up a fight - nowadays I'd be sued for touching that child despite the fact they would harm each other to a greater extent.

[Ralph_Kirk]

Originally Posted by xray731

I was going to say the same thing - the way heroes or those standing up and protecting others are being treated these days - I think anyone would pause to think of the repercussions that they may incur if they intervene - no matter how good their intentions.

In the old days, I thought nothing of grabbing a couple of youths by the scruff of their necks to break up a fight - nowadays I'd be sued for touching that child despite the fact they would harm each other to a greater extent.

That was the product of patriarchy. Men were encouraged to be heroes, as a group men around them would back them up right there on the street, and then society would support them afterward. That has been broken.

[Sunbiz1]

I think people just don't feel empowered anymore, it wasn't long ago that 19 children were murdered in Texas; while law enforcement froze.