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One more time: The 7th-day Sabbath was given as a day of rest to commemorate the completion of Creation Week. According to the Bible, it was blessed and sanctified and given a special status. That's it! Anything else regarding 'any day is the Sabbath' or 'Jesus is our Sabbath', etc. etc. is simply unscriptural.
And, while I could be wrong it's my understanding that, while not keeping the 7th-day Sabbath would not be committing 'a sin', per se, it would be the desire of a Christian to honor that day. Why would they not choose to 'remember' the day asked of them?
I'm not sure why honoring the 7th-day Sabbath would be 'sad' as Vf6cruiser says. I mean, it was the statutes and ordinances that were nailed to the cross ...not the Ten Commandments. It was - and still IS - expected that human beings (and not just Jews) will not kill, rob or cheat their fellow human beings (their neighbors). There's nothing 'sad' about doing the right thing. And, for the Christian, the first four of the Ten Commands would surely apply. Or, are these four commands just for the Jews ...?
Sarah and Rebecca’s descendants are now in Egypt, slaves of a cruel king. Moses, their destined leader, is rescued from the river by Pharaoh’s daughter, and is raised in the royal palace. “Then it came to pass in those days that Moses grew up and went out to his brothers, and saw their suffering.” (Exodus 2:11)
The Midrash relates: “Moses saw that they had no rest, so he went to Pharaoh and said: ‘If one has a slave and he does not give him rest one day in the week, the slave will die. These are your slaves—if you do not give them one day a week, they will die.’ Said Pharaoh: ‘Go and do with them as you say.’ So Moses ordained for them the Shabbat day for rest.” (Shemot Rabbah 1:32) - https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...of-Shabbat.htm
16 Thus shall the children of Israel observe the Sabbath, to make the Sabbath throughout their generations as an everlasting covenant.
17 Between Me and the children of Israel, it is forever a sign that [in] six days The Lord created the heaven and the earth, and on the seventh day He ceased and rested."
Look, it says that the keeping [shamor] and observing [zachor] of Shabbat is meant for the children of Israel...
Sarah and Rebecca’s descendants are now in Egypt, slaves of a cruel king. Moses, their destined leader, is rescued from the river by Pharaoh’s daughter, and is raised in the royal palace. “Then it came to pass in those days that Moses grew up and went out to his brothers, and saw their suffering.” (Exodus 2:11)
The Midrash relates: “Moses saw that they had no rest, so he went to Pharaoh and said: ‘If one has a slave and he does not give him rest one day in the week, the slave will die. These are your slaves—if you do not give them one day a week, they will die.’ Said Pharaoh: ‘Go and do with them as you say.’ So Moses ordained for them the Shabbat day for rest.” (Shemot Rabbah 1:32) - https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...of-Shabbat.htm
Good one Richard. And tell us this; "Was the day that Moses chose as their day of rest, 'A SATURDAY?' Or were the workers divided into different groups, such as shift workers, in order that there was never ONE DAY in the week when no work at all was done?
What was the first day of the Egyptian week called?
It is related to the the creation week ..... where as well as the 7th day being the day of rest on the 4th day we also see reference to the lights that are to be a signs and seasons, days and years .... they also rule over the day and night respectively and divide between the light and darkness
H226 (Strong)
אוֹת
'ôth
oth
Probably from H225 (in the sense of appearing); a signal (literally or figuratively), as a flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.: - mark, miracle, (en-) sign, token.
I believe we are supposed to look for these signs, recognise them and interpret them together
Gen 1:14 And God said, Let luminaries be in the expanse of the heavens, to divide between the day and the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years.
Gen 1:15 And let them be for luminaries in the expanse of the heavens, to give light on the earth. And it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made the two great luminaries: the great luminary to rule the day, and the small luminary and the stars to rule the night.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens, to give light on the earth,
Gen 1:18 and to rule over the day and over the night; and to divide between the light and the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And there was evening, and there was morning the fourth day.
16 Thus shall the children of Israel observe the Sabbath, to make the Sabbath throughout their generations as an everlasting covenant.
17 Between Me and the children of Israel, it is forever a sign that [in] six days The Lord created the heaven and the earth, and on the seventh day He ceased and rested."
Look, it says that the keeping [shamor] and observing [zachor] of Shabbat is meant for the children of Israel...
Just curious Richard what do you think about the Sabbath Regulations here - everyone working dying will die?
Exo 35:1 And Moses assembled all the congregation of the sons of Israel and said to them, These are the Words which Jehovah has commanded, to do them:
Exo 35:2 Work may be done six days and on the seventh day it shall be holy to you, a sabbath of rest to Jehovah; everyone doing work in it dying shall die.
The Shabbat was meant for the children of Israel only, not Gentiles...
Well, a couple of things. The 7th-day was blessed and sanctified at Creation. Wasn't this some 500 years before the first Jew appeared on the scene? The Jews became God's chosen people and the Gentiles were nowhere in the picture so it's pretty obvious why the Sabbath would have gone to them. It also seems likely that the Gentiles would later inherit the Sabbath once they became grafted into the Jewish faith.
Another thing, the very bandied about, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" more than implies that the Sabbath WAS made for man, otherwise would Jesus not have said, "The Sabbath was made for the Jew and not the Jew for the Sabbath" . . .?
You will also notice, Richard, that Christians installed their own 'sabbath' ...that being Sunday. So, clearly they feel the need of 'a sabbath'. So, why not the one that was blessed and sanctified at Creation?
Well, a couple of things. The 7th-day was blessed and sanctified at Creation. Wasn't this some 500 years before the first Jew appeared on the scene? The Jews became God's chosen people and the Gentiles were nowhere in the picture so it's pretty obvious why the Sabbath would have gone to them. It also seems likely that the Gentiles would later inherit the Sabbath once they became grafted into the Jewish faith.
Another thing, the very bandied about, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" more than implies that the Sabbath WAS made for man, otherwise would Jesus not have said, "The Sabbath was made for the Jew and not the Jew for the Sabbath" . . .?
You will also notice, Richard, that Christians installed their own 'sabbath' ...that being Sunday. So, clearly they feel the need of 'a sabbath'. So, why not the one that was blessed and sanctified at Creation?
Assuming that you are one of those nieve people, who believe that each creative day, was a 24 hour earth day, even though the minor sun within our solar system, wasn't created until the fourth creative day, which minor sun determines the length of a day on earth, do you believe that God who said let there be light: Did so on Sunday morning, and if not, on which day of the 7 day creative week did God first bring light out of the darkness of the expanding space, three creative days before the creation of our solar system?
Just curious Richard what do you think about the Sabbath Regulations here - everyone working dying will die?
Exo 35:1 And Moses assembled all the congregation of the sons of Israel and said to them, These are the Words which Jehovah has commanded, to do them:
Exo 35:2 Work may be done six days and on the seventh day it shall be holy to you, a sabbath of rest to Jehovah; everyone doing work in it dying shall die.
The children of Israel are Jews and Gentiles in Judaism. The Gentiles counted amongst the Jews are one with Jews, in full support of Jews, trying to become Jews. Israel is not a name that you suddenly wake up and say, '' I am of Israel.''
You can say Jesus all day long but unless you do what Isaiah 56 says, you are simply not Israel, you would be just like the people who say,'' But Lord we taught your name in the street and did miracles in your name.''( Those Christiens chose that outer darkness behind a wall of separation)
Those lawless Christians are tossed out of the two sections of the temple proper, tossed into the outer cout of Gentiles, called, '' The outer court of darkness.''
God doesnt exclude anyone from the covenant and inheritance of Israel, Gentile Christians willingly choose to remain separated from God's New Covenant. God is not going to force you to accept his worship system to join his people.Christians choose separation from the people Israel, it Is your choice.
What you would propose is sheer nonsense.
God's chosen people cannot have two wholley separate worship systems and to think it could work like that is ridiculous when the point is for gentiles to become one with Jews.
Your insinuation that you are Israel has no merit, has no logic.
The first Christians converted to the worship system of God, they became one with Jews.
Modern Christianity has nothing to do with the covenant Jesus brought for Israel and Judah., denying this fact aint gonna change the fact of you not being a Jew. There are Gentiles in the Judaism forum who were born Gentiles but are now Jews, and they are accepted by Jews.
Christianity stopped becoming Israel 2000 years ago, but they made sure to kill as many Jews as they could while claiming to be Jews.
Christians who dont accept God's worship system, BUT THEN CLAIM TO BE ISRAEL, These people are like a man who sit around telling war stories how he was a Marine saving his brother's life.
Problem is, dude was never in the marines, he never saw any war.
I know a Jew who is hated for being a Jew, and he is a Jew because he loves the Torah, and his parents were chased through Europe, ended up in a death camp and somehow made it out. Before this, his grandparents were hated and persecuted because they followed Moses and to do so makes you stick out like a sore thumb. Before this, fathers after fathers were all hated and persecuted for following the commandmentss of God. Centuries of REAL HATRED, REAL PERSECUTION, and they endured all of this REAL TORTURE, REAL DEATH, simply because they were that loyal and obedient to God, they literally chose death instead of turning their backs on God by assimilating.
I know you have no malice but to insiuate that you are Israel without becoming the sacrifice just isnt fair. The world hates the Jews, and they are specificaly hated over the cause of Moses.
It isnt fair to claim a reward, when you will not accept the hate, all of those promises say, '' If you accept my Sabbath and my ways, I will give you this.''
By accepting God's Sabbaths and feasts, you are agreeing to be hated by the world, you are agreeing to raise your children in a way that the world will hate them.
You want the reward and the inheritence with no strings.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 03-12-2020 at 01:15 AM..
The children of Israel are Jews and Gentiles in Judaism. The Gentiles counted amongst the Jews are one with Jews, in full support of Jews, trying to become Jews. Israel is not a name that you suddenly wake up and say, '' I am of Israel.''
You can say Jesus all day long but unless you do what Isaiah 56 says, you are simply not Israel, you would be just like the people who say,'' But Lord we taught your name in the street and did miracles in your name.''( Those Christiens chose that outer darkness behind a wall of separation)
Those lawless Christians are tossed out of the two sections of the temple proper, tossed into the outer cout of Gentiles, called, '' The outer court of darkness.''
God doesnt exclude anyone from the covenant and inheritance of Israel, Gentile Christians willingly choose to remain separated from God's New Covenant. God is not going to force you to accept his worship system to join his people.Christians choose separation from the people Israel, it Is your choice.
What you would propose is sheer nonsense.
God's chosen people cannot have two wholley separate worship systems and to think it could work like that is ridiculous when the point is for gentiles to become one with Jews.
Your insinuation that you are Israel has no merit, has no logic.
The first Christians converted to the worship system of God, they became one with Jews.
Modern Christianity has nothing to do with the covenant Jesus brought for Israel and Judah., denying this fact aint gonna change the fact of you not being a Jew. There are Gentiles in the Judaism forum who were born Gentiles but are now Jews, and they are accepted by Jews.
Christianity stopped becoming Israel 2000 years ago, but they made sure to kill as many Jews as they could while claiming to be Jews.
Christians who dont accept God's worship system, BUT THEN CLAIM TO BE ISRAEL, These people are like a man who sit around telling war stories how he was a Marine saving his brother's life.
Problem is, dude was never in the marines, he never saw any war.
I know a Jew who is hated for being a Jew, and he is a Jew because he loves the Torah, and his parents were chased through Europe, ended up in a death camp and somehow made it out. Before this, his grandparents were hated and persecuted because they followed Moses and to do so makes you stick out like a sore thumb. Before this, fathers after fathers were all hated and persecuted for following the commandmentss of God. Centuries of REAL HATRED, REAL PERSECUTION, and they endured all of this REAL TORTURE, REAL DEATH, simply because they were that loyal and obedient to God, they literally chose death instead of turning their backs on God by assimilating.
I know you have no malice but to insiuate that you are Israel without becoming the sacrifice just isnt fair. The world hates the Jews, and they are specificaly hated over the cause of Moses.
It isnt fair to claim a reward, when you will not accept the hate, all of those promises say, '' If you accept my Sabbath and my ways, I will give you this.''
By accepting God's Sabbaths and feasts, you are agreeing to be hated by the world, you are agreeing to raise your children in a way that the world will hate them.
You want the reward and the inheritence with no strings.
Oh for goodness sake Hannibal, when will you cease your constant attempt to re-imprison those who Jesus has set free from all your laws, which kept all Israelites locked up as prisoners, until the coming of Christ, who has set them all free?
Give it a miss mate, if you want to continue, in those ancient rituals and sacrifices and all the rest of the law that the Jews never did, nor ever could keep, by all means do so, but stop bussing in our ear like an annoying droning mosquito in your attempt to lead people away from the faith in Jesus, which is the only salvation.
Should we listen to what Christian's say of the covenant, or should we take hold of God' covenant the way he requires?
It IS Salvation for all the nation Only IF they take hold of the covenant themselves, Christian's willingly reject the covenant
Isaiah 56
1Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.
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