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What do we get. Someone conned into Faith through a cheap stage trick. Sorry, but that is to me just symptomatic of the whole big con - trick that theism is.
Ah, the eternal skeptic.
Indeed, if God were to "slap you in the face" no doubt many atheists would dismiss the experience.
Please read the account and pick it apart. If you're skilled enough maybe you can tell me how it was done.
The reverand was blindfolded. She was given a pile of sealed envelopes with a question inside and one's initials on the envelope. I had brought a friend to visit with me. The reverand picked up his envelope (left sealed) and called out his full name (had no way of knowing it as my friend just came in and sat down-first time visit) answered his question and talked about his recently deceased uncle.
Remember, first time visitor. Just came in and sat down. Meaning he did not speak to an usher. Friend was from 20 miles away. And the year was 1970.
Who cares what made you believe....the point is that you now believe and that's wonderful. I'm skeptical of the "magic trick" also, but the fact is whether it was real or not you were convinced of the spiritual realm. There's something that will make a believer out of the biggest atheist ever....and that is an experience with the occult or other such evil. Been there and it will make a believer out of you, first to believe that there is a devil and 2nd that there must be a God and what the Bible says is true.
Indeed, if God were to "slap you in the face" no doubt many atheists would dismiss the experience.
Please read the account and pick it apart. If you're skilled enough maybe you can tell me how it was done.
The reverand was blindfolded. She was given a pile of sealed envelopes with a question inside and one's initials on the envelope. I had brought a friend to visit with me. The reverand picked up his envelope (left sealed) and called out his full name (had no way of knowing it as my friend just came in and sat down-first time visit) answered his question and talked about his recently deceased uncle.
Remember, first time visitor. Just came in and sat down. Meaning he did not speak to an usher. Friend was from 20 miles away. And the year was 1970.
I regret I am not skilled enough. I do not claim to be a stage magician.
I do know that an inexplicable event is no more than explicable and because I have no way of knowing - as you have no way of knowing - what has been missed out, what preparations we are unaware of and how the whole event may be presented to look as staggeringly miraculous as possible, we can only say that we are in no position to evaluate that claim.
However, I have seen many such exhibitions exposed by setting up a simple check - using a person we KNOW is totally unknown to the person doing the trick.
No. If this guy is able to do this stuff under controlled conditions to test whether this be 'Of God or of man' then I might believe that someone is able to do second sight. But even THAT wouldn't prove a god, though such performances - Faith healing, astrology cold reading and the like are very effective at fooling the credulous.
I really cannot take the anecdote of someone - even if you are relating no more than what you saw - as convincing proof of anything, much less God.
Let me put it this way. There are seers of the same kind in India and they have done similer tricks to prove that they had miraculous powers from the Hindu Gods. Do you accept the claims of their believers as well?
Indeed, if God were to "slap you in the face" no doubt many atheists would dismiss the experience.
Please read the account and pick it apart. If you're skilled enough maybe you can tell me how it was done.
The reverand was blindfolded. She was given a pile of sealed envelopes with a question inside and one's initials on the envelope. I had brought a friend to visit with me. The reverand picked up his envelope (left sealed) and called out his full name (had no way of knowing it as my friend just came in and sat down-first time visit) answered his question and talked about his recently deceased uncle.
Remember, first time visitor. Just came in and sat down. Meaning he did not speak to an usher. Friend was from 20 miles away. And the year was 1970.
Just a thought. You will probably respond with 'Of course it was his!'
But are you sure that the name was not given at any time? Not even asking 'Is there a John or Harry here?'. An envelope was picked up but who is to say whose it was? It has his name on? Ah.
Then the 'cold reading'. It can be amazingly effective. You fish a bit and try to elicit responses. Gloss over the misses.
I regret I am not skilled enough. I do not claim to be a stage magician.
I do know that an inexplicable event is no more than explicable and because I have no way of knowing - as you have no way of knowing - what has been missed out, what preparations we are unaware of and how the whole event may be presented to look as staggeringly miraculous as possible, we can only say that we are in no position to evaluate that claim.
However, I have seen many such exhibitions exposed by setting up a simple check - using a person we KNOW is totally unknown to the person doing the trick.
No. If this guy is able to do this stuff under controlled conditions to test whether this be 'Of God or of man' then I might believe that someone is able to do second sight. But even THAT wouldn't prove a god, though such performances - Faith healing, astrology cold reading and the like are very effective at fooling the credulous.
I really cannot take the anecdote of someone - even if you are relating no more than what you saw - as convincing proof of anything, much less God.
Let me put it this way. There are seers of the same kind in India and they have done similer tricks to prove that they had miraculous powers from the Hindu Gods. Do you accept the claims of their believers as well?
Sorry for jumping in here, but I want to address this. Occult powers are absolutely used across the world in many, many different religions, including in Hinduism.
I
I really cannot take the anecdote of someone - even if you are relating no more than what you saw - as convincing proof of anything, much less God.
Let me put it this way. There are seers of the same kind in India and they have done similer tricks to prove that they had miraculous powers from the Hindu Gods. Do you accept the claims of their believers as well?
Couple of points: I am not trying to convince you or anyone of anything. If you re-read the OP you will see that.
But the reactions of the atheists posting in this thread are telling. Why should they care how I started my spiritual path? If I wanted to get a rise from atheists I would have put the OP in the R&P section.
Second, the effect of the visits to the Spiritualist church has nothing to do with God. I serioursly doubt that God was involved in what was going on. It had everything to do with the spiritual realm. Thus the name of the church. Some spirit was communicating to the reverand.
And yes, I would accept as possibily genuine, the claims of Hindu believers. They worship a number of gods and their gods give Hindu followers spiritual experiences. I am sure some are fakers, just as we have fakers in the west.
Couple of points: I am not trying to convince you or anyone of anything. If you re-read the OP you will see that.
But the reactions of the atheists posting in this thread are telling. Why should they care how I started my spiritual path? If I wanted to get a rise from atheists I would have put the OP in the R&P section.
Second, the effect of the visits to the Spiritualist church has nothing to do with God. I serioursly doubt that God was involved in what was going on. It had everything to do with the spiritual realm. Thus the name of the church. Some spirit was communicating to the reverand.
And yes, I would accept as possibily genuine, the claims of Hindu believers. They worship a number of gods and their gods give Hindu followers spiritual experiences. I am sure some are fakers, just as we have fakers in the west.
Exactly. As far as I know, the only major world religions which prohibit contact with the occult are Judaism and Christianity (and by "Judaism and Christianity" I mean the traditional versions of those religions, not the "liberal" or gnostic versions). I am not sure whether Islam takes a stance prohibiting occult activity dictated by Deuteronomy.
And finally, yes, there is a lot of "fakery" but much occult activity is genuine.
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