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Just a thought. You will probably respond with 'Of course it was his!'
But are you sure that the name was not given at any time? Not even asking 'Is there a John or Harry here?'. An envelope was picked up but who is to say whose it was? It has his name on? Ah.
Then the 'cold reading'. It can be amazingly effective. You fish a bit and try to elicit responses. Gloss over the misses.
Just a few ideas about how such tricks are done.
Initials on sealed envelope.
Called out full name as in Paul Allen Harvey.
Answered question inside of sealed (as in unopened) envelope.
Told Mr. Harvey about his uncle Phil who died, when he died, how he died and that he says Hi.
Why of course. It couldn't be any other way when you think about it. God NEEDS your faith to make him/her/it real to you. You're definitely entitled to your personal reality whatever you may think it is.
This is the problem with most atheists and agnostics, No Faith.
You make it sound as though 'faith' is a good thing when it isn't. Every mega-scam in the history of mankind has relied on one thing....'faith'. The scam could not have succeeded without it. [quote]All faith is...is the practice of ignoring the supportable in favour of a desired belief. It's the psychological mechanism which allows us to deny reality and accept, in its place, a desirable fantasy. You recognize this in every other aspect of your life. When you drive, you don't just plow through red lights and rely on faith to get you safely to the other side of the road because you recognize the reality of the danger -- you subscribe to the evidence. If you're working on the wiring in your home and you see the wires arcing, you won't simply grab the wires in faith that nothing will harm you. Instead you'll subscribe to the evidence and seek to cut the power before continuing.
Faith equals denial of reality and it's never a good thing. Faith is what allows people to believe that black cats can bring them bad luck. Faith is what allowed people to throw their own children into volcanoes. Faith is what causes the mass of spam e-mails that prompt people to send out 10-copies to avoid "bad luck" or to attain "good luck". Faith should always be seen as a negative because that's exactly what faith is.
Other than religion, please tell us in what other aspect of your everyday life do you rely solely on 'faith'.
Answered question inside of sealed (as in unopened) envelope.
Told Mr. Harvey about his uncle Phil who died, when he died, how he died and that he says Hi.
Moved on to next envelope.
I feel like I am wasting electrons with this.
You are. It's a simple parlor trick. Who was it that was pretending to know things he couldn't possibly know, and was outed for having a microphone in his ear with his wife telling him what to say, because she'd read the "prayer cards" people filled out on the way in? Wasn't it Benny Hinn?
It's obvious that the papers were read beforehand and the info passed on to your miraculous shyster.
[quote=Rafius;15927322]You make it sound as though 'faith' is a good thing when it isn't. Every mega-scam in the history of mankind has relied on one thing....'faith'. The scam could not have succeeded without it.
Quote:
All faith is...is the practice of ignoring the supportable in favour of a desired belief. It's the psychological mechanism which allows us to deny reality and accept, in its place, a desirable fantasy. You recognize this in every other aspect of your life. When you drive, you don't just plow through red lights and rely on faith to get you safely to the other side of the road because you recognize the reality of the danger -- you subscribe to the evidence. If you're working on the wiring in your home and you see the wires arcing, you won't simply grab the wires in faith that nothing will harm you. Instead you'll subscribe to the evidence and seek to cut the power before continuing.
Faith equals denial of reality and it's never a good thing. Faith is what allows people to believe that black cats can bring them bad luck. Faith is what allowed people to throw their own children into volcanoes. Faith is what causes the mass of spam e-mails that prompt people to send out 10-copies to avoid "bad luck" or to attain "good luck". Faith should always be seen as a negative because that's exactly what faith is.
Other than religion, please tell us in what other aspect of your everyday life do you rely solely on 'faith'.
Count me in as one who thought there would be substance here. Parlor tricks? Seriously? Equating religion with magic has got to me be lamest thing I've ever heard. Almost sounds like someone is pulling everyones leg....?
Answered question inside of sealed (as in unopened) envelope.
Told Mr. Harvey about his uncle Phil who died, when he died, how he died and that he says Hi.
Moved on to next envelope.
I feel like I am wasting electrons with this.
Of course you do as you are convinced and will not question. However, as dreaning Spires said, there is fakery. Proven persistent fakery. I mentioned the Hindu bods specifically as I have read how some of them were challenged to show their powers in controlled and specific conditions where their powers should still have worked but fakery was eliminated and they tried to make all sorts of modified conditions which would give them a chance to fake before they would agree.
One is tempted to say that the only true occultists are the ones who havent been caught faking yet.
Now you assure me that the results were absolutely amazing. Perhaps. I am willing to be convinced, but not by anecdotes because I can't know and neither can you what possible means could have been employed to work this trick and I can't be sure that you are not tweaking the details to support your assurance that it was inexplicable.
Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof and I would need to be convinced myself.
I would provide an envelope and I would want it in sight all the time. And I would be very much aware of being milked for information.
As to why I'm doing this. People who make claims or sub claims on a forum are - whether they admit it or not - offering a case of persuasion. They can expect to be challenged and there is no point in acting all hurt and bewildered when some pointed questions are asked.
At age 20 my grandmother invited me to attend her "church". It was a spiritualist church. To make a long story short after four visits, I saw and experienced things that convinced me that the spiritual realm was real. One example was the readings. The reverand was blindfolded. She was given a pile of sealed envelopes with a question inside and one's initials on the envelope. I had brought a friend to visit with me. The reverand picked up his envelope (left sealed) and called out his full name (had no way of knowing it as my friend just came in and sat down-first time visit) answered his question and talked about his recently deceased uncle. My freind and I were shocked and a bit freaked out.
Sounds like one heck of a good magic show! But seriously, if that's what it took to convince you of the existance of God, I guess maybe there was some point to it.
I really find it amusing how the skeptics found it necessary to jump in to try to convince me and themselves that what started me on my spiritual journey was a sham. Laughable and very telling.
This thread was never meant to be anything but a time of sharing, yet the little goblins of atheism just had to jump in and dump their rotten apples into the barrel to make sure all went bad. Sad.
I really feel sorry for you folk. Can't you just be happy (or at least content in your belief system) and let people be who they are? Can you not do that? Maybe not.
I see much anger and bitterness in the atheist camp. Not from all, of course. There are a few (on this board) open minded and peace loving ones. Dewdrop and June come to mind for starters. I also see closed mindedness, but that's not as bad. Everyone is that way to some degree. The anger and bitterness-that is not good. Not healthy.
well,whatever means got you to where you are a believer now,thank goodness they did,right?
in all things a purpose,perhaps?
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