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Old 09-19-2010, 08:28 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 8,764,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post

I for one, do not find faith and reason mutually exclusive. In fact, they are synergistic forces in my salvation.
I agree with this ...
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Old 09-19-2010, 08:30 PM
 
63,833 posts, read 40,118,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
I for one, do not find faith and reason mutually exclusive. In fact, they are synergistic forces in my salvation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I agree with this ...
I second it!
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Old 09-19-2010, 09:07 PM
 
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I remember reading a THICK book about reason and faith (something like that) by Boa Kenneth. Sigh. Let's just say that my mind did not cooperate with the book. If you're referring to Classical and Reformed Apologetics, then perhaps most people preferred this kind of reasonings. I find myself to be an Evidentialist believer (?) without knowing. Fideism....Hmm.
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Old 09-20-2010, 05:23 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 6,371,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
The empty tomb should be sufficient.

John 20:29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

People that are already believers but seek after a sign are liken unto an adulterous generation. Some that chooses this path will be disappointed while others will lose themselves in signs and wonders, giving themselves over to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.

Keeping your eyes on Jesus is never a truer call than it was back in the early church days.

The problem nowadays is when people take the word of man over the word of God. Because of the word of man, people need relative present proof of God.

But history cries the greatest proof of all and that is the empty tomb because if the tomb was not empty, if there was no resurrection, then christianity would never have been born at all.
Hi Enow,
Well, personally, I can say that I believe today, because I had a sign! Some believe without signs, and I can admire that; but I don't think that God wants us to stay in the dark concerning Him; and since He is alive, I think it's "reasonable" to expect that He can touch and speak to us all.

Blessings,
brian
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Old 09-20-2010, 04:47 PM
 
5,503 posts, read 5,573,354 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
This is a fascinating topic.

If one were to explore augustine, aquinas, and even recent speaches of John Paul or Benedict, they would find alot to chew on.

I for one, do not find faith and reason mutually exclusive. In fact, they are synergistic forces in my salvation.
Aye...
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:22 AM
 
525 posts, read 348,594 times
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ancient warrior,

re: "Belief can be based on reason or faith."
 

But either way, beliefs can not be obtained by consciously CHOOSING to have them.
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 3,725,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
ancient warrior,

re: "Belief can be based on reason or faith."
 

But either way, beliefs can not be obtained by consciously CHOOSING to have them.
RESPONSE:

Of course they can.
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 3,226,165 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
The empty tomb should be sufficient.

John 20:29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

People that are already believers but seek after a sign are liken unto an adulterous generation. Some that chooses this path will be disappointed while others will lose themselves in signs and wonders, giving themselves over to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.

Keeping your eyes on Jesus is never a truer call than it was back in the early church days.

The problem nowadays is when people take the word of man over the word of God. Because of the word of man, people need relative present proof of God.

But history cries the greatest proof of all and that is the empty tomb because if the tomb was not empty, if there was no resurrection, then christianity would never have been born at all.
YES! Wonderful truth!
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:49 PM
 
525 posts, read 348,594 times
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ancient warrior,

re: "Of course they can."
 

Perhaps you can help me then. I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that - for example to effect a belief that it is possible for me to become a more compassionate person. Since you say that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to say, "OK, at this moment I have a lack of belief that ‘x’ exists or is true, but I CHOOSE to believe that ‘x’ exists or is true and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that ‘x’ exists or is true?

Maybe you could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your technique. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a leprechaun is "a fairy peculiar to Ireland, who appeared in the form of an old man of minute stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron." So, assuming that you don’t already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief?
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:41 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 3,725,162 times
Reputation: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
ancient warrior,

re: "Of course they can."
 

Perhaps you can help me then. I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that - for example to effect a belief that it is possible for me to become a more compassionate person. Since you say that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to say, "OK, at this moment I have a lack of belief that ‘x’ exists or is true, but I CHOOSE to believe that ‘x’ exists or is true and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that ‘x’ exists or is true?

Maybe you could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your technique. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a leprechaun is "a fairy peculiar to Ireland, who appeared in the form of an old man of minute stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron." So, assuming that you don’t already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief?
RESPONSE:

Sure.

2 + 2 equals 4. Decide if you want to believe or reject this.

The earth revolves around the sun. Decide if you want to believe or reject this.

Try making a list of what you choose to believe or don't choose to believe.It's as simple as that.
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