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Old 10-02-2010, 04:01 AM
 
525 posts, read 348,594 times
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ancient warrior,

re: "Asked and answered. See message #22."
 
I’m afraid I don’t see in your message #22 where you say that you now believe - are convinced without a doubt - that leprechauns exist.
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Old 10-02-2010, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 3,725,162 times
Reputation: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
ancient warrior,

re: "Asked and answered. See message #22."
 
I’m afraid I don’t see in your message #22 where you say that you now believe - are convinced without a doubt - that leprechauns exist.
RESPONSE:

Perhaps because I didn't?
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Old 10-02-2010, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,673,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

So you've made a choice what to believe, eh?
Yep. I can do that.
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Old 10-02-2010, 09:52 AM
 
2,963 posts, read 5,454,450 times
Reputation: 3872
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
If it is a CHOICE for you . . . you have no inner belief about it, period. Claims are NOT beliefs . . . they are intellectual acknowledgments of preference among alternatives about which you have no inner committed position. What you truly believe . . . you believe . . . there is no choice involved.
I think this post bears repeating and deep reflection. It returns us to the idea of empiricism vs rationality (yes, that's "versus") and a priori knowledge, which seems to be a particular roadblock on these forums. You can Google the argument. I don't like the term "rationalism" because used prosaically it's a loaded, emotional one. "Rationale" is more neutral. But philosophically and logically, capital r Rationalism does lead to either belief or non-belief in God, neither bias being indefensible. But BOTH biases lead to trains of thought that can be questioned, and questionable, philosophically.
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Old 10-03-2010, 06:09 AM
 
525 posts, read 348,594 times
Reputation: 41
ancient warrior,

re: "Perhaps because I didn't?"
 
Is there any particular reason why you don’t want to demonstrate - in realtime - your stated ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe things?
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Old 10-03-2010, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 3,725,162 times
Reputation: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
ancient warrior,

re: "Perhaps because I didn't?"
 
Is there any particular reason why you don’t want to demonstrate - in realtime - your stated ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe things?
RESPONSE:

Asked and answered. See post # 26.

Rational people examine the evidence and then choose what to believe. They make the choice.

Eric Berne in his book Games People Play counsels that when one encounters a person playing games, simply refuse to play. So I shall.
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Old 10-03-2010, 10:26 AM
 
63,834 posts, read 40,118,744 times
Reputation: 7880
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior View Post
RESPONSE:

Asked and answered. See post # 26.

Rational people examine the evidence and then choose what to believe. They make the choice.

Eric Berne in his book Games People Play counsels that when one encounters a person playing games, simply refuse to play. So I shall.
Don't forget your ball, bat, glove and logic text (try reading it though).
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Old 10-03-2010, 10:46 AM
 
63,834 posts, read 40,118,744 times
Reputation: 7880
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
If it is a CHOICE for you . . . you have no inner belief about it, period. Claims are NOT beliefs . . . they are intellectual acknowledgments of preference among alternatives about which you have no inner committed position. What you truly believe . . . you believe . . . there is no choice involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunjee View Post
I think this post bears repeating and deep reflection. It returns us to the idea of empiricism vs rationality (yes, that's "versus") and a priori knowledge, which seems to be a particular roadblock on these forums. You can Google the argument. I don't like the term "rationalism" because used prosaically it's a loaded, emotional one. "Rationale" is more neutral. But philosophically and logically, capital r Rationalism does lead to either belief or non-belief in God, neither bias being indefensible. But BOTH biases lead to trains of thought that can be questioned, and questionable, philosophically.
Thank you Bunjee . . . it is terribly important to understand this . . . especially for those Christians who do not understand the difference between "believe in" and "believe on" as used in the ancient writings. It is the "believe on" that captures the essence of the only true belief . . . NOT the intellectual "believe in" that so many consider a CHOICE they must make. Belief is not a choice . . . and it is reflected in our attitudes and behaviors ("fruits" for Christians) . . . NOT our claims. This is why I am saddened that so many "believers" will be disappointed (regret and remorse) in the next stage of life. Many of you "unbelievers" will also be surprised . . . (as your "fruits" indicate) . . . despite your protestations.
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Old 10-03-2010, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,673,094 times
Reputation: 11084
Then I'm obviously one of those who believes in nothing...

if that's the way you feel about it. I don't even believe in you.
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:06 AM
 
63,834 posts, read 40,118,744 times
Reputation: 7880
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Then I'm obviously one of those who believes in nothing...
if that's the way you feel about it. I don't even believe in you.
Think about it more deeply then . . . your "fruit" of responding to me on this forum would indicate a belief that I do indeed exist to respond to . . . otherwise you are insane.
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