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Let me say that the presumption that "ET'ers don't get is not the key issue.The key issue is this:
I don't propose nothing, all I do is repeat God's word. This is what is really being said
The simple fact of the matter is, if as JESUS and God's Word proposes, that God lets people be tortured forever, then God is simply not all-loving. I believe his assessment is incorrect
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ why God bound all men unto disobedience////////////
Because God told Adam and Eve "If you eat of it ... you will surely die". It was not the creation's will for death.
Satan (the UR'ist) argues "Did God really say ... you will die ?"
Jesus says
"flesh gives birth to flesh"
"all have sinned"
Because of adam and eve's disobedience ... death (physical and spiritual) are a part of this world
Because of Satan's rebellion, hell now exist.
Those who remain rebellious and disobedient will be assigned to Satan's fate.
The continued false accusations against UR'ers as rebellious and disobedient is tiresome. There are no "fruits of Satan" in any UR'ist here . . . but they abound within the mainstream believers posting here.
If not for the encouragement of the UR's in this forum . . . the retention and perpetuating of primitive ignorance and revering it as a sign of faith by blindly accepting what was "written in ink" . . . is so ubiquitous and tenacious in mainstream religions that I would despair of it ever being overcome by the Holy Spirit and what has been "written in our hearts."
Actually you are not repeating God's word , you are telling us what you believe you god(the bible) is saying. God's words are spirit and life, you my friend are speaking death.
It is not good news to the poor, it does not heal the brokenheated,it does not set the captive free, it does not set at liberty those that are bruised , it does the complete opposite.
pcamps,
Sorry to hear that you hate God's word. I then will take that into consideration when you feel like using it.
"Did God really say" ...yes pcamps, God did. No one is freed, or healed, or un-bruised (?) when they reject the message God \ Jesus of free forgiveness. When they do God and Jesus warns about the consequences.
Noah warned ... only 8 were saved.
The OT prophets warned ... only a remnant were saved.
The 12 tribes went into exile ... only a remnant returned.
pcamps,
Sorry to hear that you hate God's word. I then will take that into consideration when you feel like using it.
"Did God really say" ...yes pcamps, God did. No one is freed, or healed, or un-bruised (?) when they reject the message God \ Jesus of free forgiveness. When they do God and Jesus warns about the consequences.
Noah warned ... only 8 were saved.
The OT prophets warned ... only a remnant were saved.
The 12 tribes went into exile ... only a remnant returned.
Not once did i say i hated God's word and you know that.
Christendom has screwed up the good news, just like the scribes and pharisees did with the law and then try's passing it onto us as the word of God.
Quit with your few are saved Revelation speaks of multitudes upon multitudes worshipping the Lamb that was slain.How come you never mention this ?
The ministry of death you love doesn't even give a chance for the brokenhearted,the blind,the captives,the bruised and the poor,because there is no good news in your message, because you never learnt the lesson of your master freely wiping your debt clean.If you had your message would be "come see", and not repent or else......life and death are in the power of the tongue.....
Last edited by pcamps; 11-17-2010 at 12:09 PM..
Reason: Camps are you rebuking him ? yes i am
No you have built your own argument and then made a case against it.
When you divide the word of God so that you see where the accountability of Gods desires fall, then it is your strawman that gets burnt down.
Easy to say strawman, but show me IN THE WORD where God forces man AGAINST his will to bow to ANY god, much less Him or His Son.
Com'on, I am sure you have 'plenty' of verses showing me this....
And if you say there isn't any,,,then YOUR WHOLE CASE FALLS APART. Becuase your whole doctrine is built upon 1 verses, yet it crashes down when nothing at all supports ALL HUMANS who have ever lived upon this planet to bow down.
Isaiah 66:24,,,,the last verse in his book, says they do not and this after verse 23 says they will bow down before Him. Who is the ALL? All those who bow and are NOT dead.
"Then they will go forth and look On the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm will not die And their fire will not be quenched; And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind."
Easy to say strawman, but show me IN THE WORD where God forces man AGAINST his will to bow to ANY god, much less Him or His Son.
Com'on, I am sure you have 'plenty' of verses showing me this....
You are not understanding what phaze and what URers in general are saying.
God doesn't have to force man against his will.
God can change a man's will, so that the man's will is in line with His own. Witness Saul's conversion to Paul. God didn't have to force Paul to follow Him. He just showed up and Paul fell down and asked "what will you have me do?"
No forcing necessary when one is confronted with the full presence of the Lord.
"Its not true so there is no point in addressing it." my sentiments exactly..UR fits the bill to a "t"
twin, you keep going on and on about "did God really say that", and what you are missing is that God said He will have all men to be saved, and it is only through poor translation that people can come up with the idea that God wants to torture most of humanity for ever.
GOD WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED. Did He really say that twin.spin? Did He really mean it?
Quote:
You don't have a problem with me .... I don't propose a thing.
You like to hide behind the bible but of course it is what you proposed. You are proposing your interpretation of the words in scripture is correct and other people's interpretation of those same words is incorrect. If that wasn't true there wouldn't be people arguing both for eternal torment & annihilation (on top of UR).
So to determine the truth, perhaps we need to check the fruits of the spirit. And something smells rotten with the fruits of eternal torment. God is love, is all-loving and purposes people to be tormented forever. Oh but that's right you don't really think God is all-loving. Good thing you are one of the lucky/smart ones that God loves. The rest deserve to burn anyway.
And I guess I shouldn't be surprised you think God doesn't love everyone. Please correct me I'm wrong on that.
Easy to say strawman, but show me IN THE WORD where God forces man AGAINST his will to bow to ANY god, much less Him or His Son.
Com'on, I am sure you have 'plenty' of verses showing me this....
And if you say there isn't any,,,then YOUR WHOLE CASE FALLS APART. Becuase your whole doctrine is built upon 1 verses, yet it crashes down when nothing at all supports ALL HUMANS who have ever lived upon this planet to bow down.
Isaiah 66:24,,,,the last verse in his book, says they do not and this after verse 23 says they will bow down before Him. Who is the ALL? All those who bow and are NOT dead.
"Then they will go forth and look On the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm will not die And their fire will not be quenched; And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind."
Then don't make the strawman so easy, no one is obligated to show a scripture based upon your implication of any word.
My case doesn't fall apart because I haven't made the case your against, perhaps you should try a different argument.
What I can say is that force as biblically defined has plenty of scriptures.
The potter and the clay. What lump of clay is not forced into the shape of the potter?
John 6:44 where the definition is literally drag, when applied spiritually it is a force at work.
The scripture that says "We Love God BECAUSE he loved us first" is a force at work.
Now, you can try and make me prove your strawman, but it is not my argument, it is your fallacy.
You are not understanding what phaze and what URers in general are saying.
God doesn't have to force man against his will.
God can change a man's will, so that the man's will is in line with His own. Witness Saul's conversion to Paul. God didn't have to force Paul to follow Him. He just showed up and Paul fell down and asked "what will you have me do?"
No forcing necessary when one is confronted with the full presence of the Lord.
Paul said God apprehended him Phil 3 :12 , and when i read the account of him on his way to Damascus to apprehend those who were of the way, he gets apprehended himself, laugh out loud who says God does not have a sense of humor, and it was not through Jesus tickling his ears that knocked him of his high horse, he was full blown apprehended off it by the power of God , which no force created can possibly come close to .
Paul said God apprehended him Phil 3 :12 , and when i read the account of him on his way to Damascus to apprehend those who were of the way, he gets apprehended himself, laugh out loud who says God does not have a sense of humor, and it was not through Jesus tickling his ears that knocked him of his high horse, he was full blown apprehended off it by the power of God , which no force created can possibly come close to .
Yes its really a question of how you define force.
A force can be a blow that knocks you off your horse. "snap out of it man" kind of thing.
Love can also be a force. Given enough patience, kindness, endurance, and time, love can change a person. Love doesn't fail...
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to a "t"
