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You should probably start by looking in the mirror at the carnal man that resides within and realize that God has started a good work in ALL of the human beings He has created, not just a select few. You can start by realizing that the "wicked" within you (general you), the part within you that resists love.... is perishing. That is where you should start, friend. It's where we should all start. Love conquers ALL.
As in Adam, all die... so in Christ all shall be MADE alive.
His plan is 100% perfect. I am fully confident. No one can take this peace from me.
I believe in a Creator who will not fail His creation. I have full confidence and faith in HIM who created us.
peace,
sparrow
.sparrow, with all due respect, that is one huge dodge. My question was how does one interpret these verses. To respond flippantly "just look in the mirror" is no respectable response. If you have no answer and/or are confused about how to line these verses up with UR then just admit it. No one will think the lesser of you for it. I've been from ET to UR and now to annihilation because I could not reconcile these verses with what UR espouses. You obviously cannot explain them or you would have. If anyone here can explain to me in a clear logical manner what these verses are saying I am willing to listen with an open mind.
pcamps,
After the disciples were sent out to announce the good news, Jesus instructed the disciples to say to any town that rejected the message tell them they are dirty rotten sinners and if you don't believe you are and don't believe in Jesus you are damned
Luke 10:10-12
But when you enter a town and are not welcomed, go into its streets and say, ‘Even the dust of your town we wipe from our feet as a warning to you. Yet be sure of this: The kingdom of God has come near.’ I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town.
Finn the bolded part of the above post is twin quoting me , he actually believes this, i don't i believe it's a gospel of damnation.
Like i said on the post he quoted me on , i believe Jesus told us(you and i)to go tell our friends what great things God has done for us.
.sparrow, with all due respect, that is one huge dodge. My question was how does one interpret these verses. To respond flippantly "just look in the mirror" is no respectable response. If you have no answer and/or are confused about how to line these verses up with UR then just admit it. No one will think the lesser of you for it. I've been from ET to UR and now to annihilation because I could not reconcile these verses with what UR espouses. You obviously cannot explain them or you would have. If anyone here can explain to me in a clear logical manner what these verses are saying I am willing to listen with an open mind.
Huge dodge.
responded flippantly.
not respectable.
no answer.
confused.
cannot explain.
Take a look at the words above that you just used on me.
Without even attempting to get clarification from me about what I said.
My response was not flippant, it was extremely serious. I am not confused. I was answering your question.
YOU ARE PERISHING, brother.
YOU!
ME!
ALL OF US!
We are IN Adam and we are ALL Dying.
IN CHRIST, we shall ALL be made alive.
This is GOOD news.
We were subjected to futility. Have you ever thought about that verse in great depth? We were SUBJECTED to something... WHY? Think about it.
What you need to stop doing is separating human beings into "wicked" and "not wicked" and start realizing that is the wicked in EACH of us that is perishing. All of those verses you quote, you need to see them through a different set of eyes. You are seeing them through a set of very basic eyes. Dig further, bro. It's there. It's all there. I don't know what else to say to you. But just because you don't understand what I'm saying or what my words mean right now... does not mean that I am being flippant, ok bro?
Can i ask you why you are on here daily questioning the belief of those who believe in UR ?
I don't question your belief in God. I have never done that.
I debate what I believe. Jesus preached the good news, but he also preached warnings about what happens when people reject the good news. There are people here who deny these warnings, and when they are denied, I debate it. That is not questioning your belief, it is simply disagreeing with them. However, when you told Twin that he does not believe the good news exist, you said that he does not believe the good news, and that it obviously not true. Of course Twin believes the good news, but he also believes the warnings, as I do. I have also been told by URs that I do not know God, and that I do not have the Spirit. Comments like that question my relationship with God, and they are uncalled for. Basically you are saying we are unbelievers. I have never accused you, or anyone for being an unbeliever. That is what I mean by "questioning one's beliefs". It is very different from simply disagreeing.
I am sure you can make your points without questioning other people's beliefs.
No Finn you never mentioned God , you said "beliefs" and like i pointed out, you question the beliefs of UR daily , you believe it's heresy and of the devil and that is fine, i do not have a problem with you believing that, i also understand why you do and why you are always along with many others trying to debunk Universal Reconciliation.
I already made my point: you are doomed to fail as long as you apply your own standards, your sense of justice and your human logic when you try to "figure out" God. You just said it again. You said it is "illogical". You are trying to use logic, and when things don't add up, you think it is not true. You have replace faith with logic.
Wouldn't you try to "figure out" someone who you wish to know intimately? Have you ever tried to figure out your father, mother, wife, etc? How could you "know God" if you didn't at least try to figure Him out?
Certainly if someone told me that my father planned to set people on fire who didn't believe what he said, I would spent a little time trying to figure him out. I wouldn't just accept what I heard by faith. It wouldn't seem "logical" to me that my father would do that. I would have to choose to either get to know him better and "figure him out" or live in denial and choose not to think about what I was told about him.
Originally Posted by twin.spin From a scriptural view point, that probably would be the core issue of UR " despise(ing) God's judgments and wish they weren't so? " and why I oppose it ..... which is why UR is considered a Satanic lie. Satan despises God's judgement against him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson
Very astute observation! I would certainly have to agree.
Not astute at all. You are both confused. Twin says we despise God's judgments although we believe that God's judgments are 100% just. I think what Twin means is that we despise the interpretation ET'ers have of God's judgments.
By saying we "wish they weren't so" he is asserting that we believe in your interpretation when we do not. It would be the same as saying that Twin and Half despise God's judgments of allowing people to reap what they sow, and then redeeming all mankind. Does that make sense that we would say you despise something and wish it weren't so if you don't even believe it to be true?
A more astute observation would be that URs despise your interpretation of God's character that says he will crush people or set them on fire, and ETs despise our interpretation that God will allow correction and reconciliation of all people.
My response was not flippant, it was extremely serious. I am not confused. I was answering your question.
YOU ARE PERISHING, brother.
YOU!
ME!
ALL OF US!
We are IN Adam and we are ALL Dying.
IN CHRIST, we shall ALL be made alive.
This is GOOD news.
We were subjected to futility. Have you ever thought about that verse in great depth? We were SUBJECTED to something... WHY? Think about it.
What you need to stop doing is separating human beings into "wicked" and "not wicked" and start realizing that is the wicked in EACH of us that is perishing. All of those verses you quote, you need to see them through a different set of eyes. You are seeing them through a set of very basic eyes. Dig further, bro. It's there. It's all there. I don't know what else to say to you. But just because you don't understand what I'm saying or what my words mean right now... does not mean that I am being flippant, ok bro?
peace,
sparrow
You have pointed to the major failing of those who do not understand the composition of our soul, sparrow. Our soul is the ACCUMULATIONof every thought and feeling that we have ever had in our entire life up to this point and we are adding to it every day. There is no such thing as a 100% wicked soul or a 100% pure agape love soul (except for Jesus). In that mixture there is plenty of "wicked". . . plenty of love . . . compassion . . . lust . . . anger . . . vengeance . . . etc.etc.etc. Not all of it can remain unchanged . . . either by repentance or by "refinement." So to judge anyone as wicked or Satan's child is ludicrous. The wicked parts cannot and will not survive . . . but we will be saved . . ."even as by fire". . . "some 100 fold, some 60 fold and some 30 fold."
Huge dodge.
responded flippantly.
not respectable.
no answer.
confused.
cannot explain.
Take a look at the words above that you just used on me.
Without even attempting to get clarification from me about what I said.
My response was not flippant, it was extremely serious. I am not confused. I was answering your question.
YOU ARE PERISHING, brother.
YOU!
ME!
ALL OF US!
We are IN Adam and we are ALL Dying.
IN CHRIST, we shall ALL be made alive.
This is GOOD news.
We were subjected to futility. Have you ever thought about that verse in great depth? We were SUBJECTED to something... WHY? Think about it.
What you need to stop doing is separating human beings into "wicked" and "not wicked" and start realizing that is the wicked in EACH of us that is perishing. All of those verses you quote, you need to see them through a different set of eyes. You are seeing them through a set of very basic eyes. Dig further, bro. It's there. It's all there. I don't know what else to say to you. But just because you don't understand what I'm saying or what my words mean right now... does not mean that I am being flippant, ok bro?
peace,
sparrow
.sparrow, you're still skirting the question. All that print of yours and not one word of it addresses a single verse I posted. If you're able to, please explain what those verses are saying about what happens to the wicked after they die. If you're not able to, that's okay. Just own up. Better men or women than you have fallen on their faces trying to. But I do believe there are some here who can help me to understand in a convincing manner just exactly why these particular words, horrifying as they are, were chosen by the men writing the Bible. I settled on annihilation by default because I had to accept on their face what these verses say about the fate of the wicked. Just for reference, the verses are in post #142.
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, you said "beliefs" and like i pointed out, you question the beliefs of UR daily , you believe it's heresy and of the devil and that is fine, i do not have a problem with you believing that, i also understand why you do and why you are always along with many others trying to debunk Universal Reconciliation.
I would certainly have to agree.
