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Matthew 5-20
"For I tell you, uunless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of heaven".
Matthew 5-30
"For it's better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into Hell".
Matthew 7, 13-14
Jusus speaking of heaven
"Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. Fot the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to lifeand those who fond it are few".
Mat.12-32 "Whoever speaks against the Holy spirit will not be forgiven either in this age or the age to come."
Mat. 25- 41
Jesus teaching on The final Judgement.
"Then He, {Speaking of Himself}, will say to those on his left,Depart from me you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels".
vs.46
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
I don't know what you folks are talking about but it's very obvious you do not believe in the clear words of Christ!!!!!!
You can believe what ever you want but please do not call it Christian because it just isn't.
As you said..."the clear words of Christ" are just that !
John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.” John 11:25-26 “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die.
Jesus asks a very simple question ..... answerable by either a "yes" or "no"
John 11:26 " Do you believe this?”
Her answer:
John 11:27 " 'Yes, Lord,' she told him ...." (followed by a creed)
Last edited by twin.spin; 02-16-2011 at 06:54 PM..
Reason: spacing
Matthew 5-20
"For I tell you, uunless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of heaven".
Matthew 5-30
"For it's better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into Hell".
Matthew 7, 13-14
Jusus speaking of heaven
"Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. Fot the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to lifeand those who fond it are few".
Mat.12-32 "Whoever speaks against the Holy spirit will not be forgiven either in this age or the age to come."
Mat. 25- 41
Jesus teaching on The final Judgement.
"Then He, {Speaking of Himself}, will say to those on his left,Depart from me you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels".
vs.46
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
I don't know what you folks are talking about but it's very obvious you do not believe in the clear words of Christ!!!!!!
You can believe what ever you want but please do not call it Christian because it just isn't.
LK Do you realize unless you see the world as God see's it you will never be effective in the slightest with what you believe, regardless of how knowledgeable you are versed in scripture. We all reflect to others the way we believe God is.
Which members have you lost so far ?.
You know what i believe there is more righteousness in this world, then there is in much of fundamental christianity,so if what you are saying is the Pharisee is doomed, i don't hold out much hope for fundamentalists.
Sensitivity to what ?. I know in whom i have believed and i am fully persuaded, without staggering, strengthened in faith in the knowledge that he is the Savior of All too. I believe in a God who is not only able but willing too.
You still do not have a scripture for my question i take it ?.
pcamps ... just how many times do you need to be shown ? John 8:24
John 11:25 1 Corinthians 1:21
pcamps ... just how many times do you need to be shown ? John 8:24 John 11:25 1 Corinthians 1:21
Twin for every bible verse you throw at me i could throw one back, so what is your point ?.
May the day arrive hastily that Fundamental Christianity believes it's loved, moves on from woe is me, i'm a sinner saved by grace, you're doomed if you do not believe like me, and start believing who they are in Christ,seeing themselves as God see's them, and better still seeing the world how God loves it.
Because this is the root problem with it, it really does not believe it's loved,it see's the worst in itself and others, and then naturally because of that mind set it has no confidence before God,but just in the doctrines of the system(that somehow comforts it). Christ and his kingdom in us is completely alien to it, and never given any place of importance.
What may i ask as any of this to do with whether God is able and willing to save all.
What i do know and understand his the nature of God and the heart of God within me. Also the witness within me, if i am willing to be loving,forgiving and merciful to all by the life within me , how much more is our heavenly Father able ?.
I commend you for being loving, forgiving and merciful to all. After all this is the command given to us by Jesus.
However I don't understand how you project what we, God's creatures are commanded to do onto God Himself, as if because we are commanded to do something then God also is requires to do the same.
Like I have said before, you are welcome to have such a belief but it's not something that is taught in the bible. The bible speaks of God's love as being very particular. He loves His own children and the rest of humankind is at emnity with God as the bible puts it. In other words they are His enemies. What about Essau? The bible state that God Hated him.
I can fully understand why people desire to create a God of their own understanding. Almighty God is a fearful God. He does not conform to what our human nature tells us God should be like.
How many times have I heard my own children cry out, "That's not fair Dad. Well, when people read the bible and there is a truth stated in there that is very clearly stated they cry, "It's not fair", God just can't be like that".
Many people think that God owes them something. He actually does because He promises it. That something is Justice. That's all He owes human kind. Out of His own sovereignity and will He decided to set aside a portion of humanity that will recieve something else. That something else is Grace. Defined as,"unearned favour". Those particular people He sets apart and regenerates them into the likeness of Jesus.
So, in this world we can get either justice from God which is all we can expect or we can be objects of His grace and thereby inherit eternal life.
I commend you for being loving, forgiving and merciful to all. After all this is the command given to us by Jesus.
However I don't understand how you project what we, God's creatures are commanded to do onto God Himself, as if because we are commanded to do something then God also is requires to do the same.
Like I have said before, you are welcome to have such a belief but it's not something that is taught in the bible. The bible speaks of God's love as being very particular. He loves His own children and the rest of humankind is at emnity with God as the bible puts it. In other words they are His enemies. What about Essau? The bible state that God Hated him.
I can fully understand why people desire to create a God of their own understanding. Almighty God is a fearful God. He does not conform to what our human nature tells us God should be like.
How many times have I heard my own children cry out, "That's not fair Dad. Well, when people read the bible and there is a truth stated in there that is very clearly stated they cry, "It's not fair", God just can't be like that".
Many people think that God owes them something. He actually does because He promises it. That something is Justice. That's all He owes human kind. Out of His own sovereignity and will He decided to set aside a portion of humanity that will recieve something else. That something else is Grace. Defined as,"unearned favour". Those particular people He sets apart and regenerates them into the likeness of Jesus.
So, in this world we can get either justice from God which is all we can expect or we can be objects of His grace and thereby inherit eternal life.
Commend Christ in me, that i believe it and that i am able to do so,it's his attributes alone.My Father would never ask me to do something he wouldn't do himself, i think this Father and child analogy speaks volumes more than your's. So loving our enemies,being kind to the unthankful and evil, blessing those who curse us, going the extra mile and so on are all his attributes, that reveal his heart to the lost world. Viewing the world in any other way, we are clanging cymbols.
I know this is offensive to some because the way they esteem the written word, but it's Christ in us that is the source of life,this Christ in us ministers to us bread and wine. He reveals to us himself in the scriptures.
He's able to furnish a table in the wilderness ? what you going to do without your bible there ?, not drink from the rock that was Christ that followed them around the wilderness 1 Cor 10:4, but drink from that same rock that now resides in the believer.
Justice ?...................Heavens peace and perfect justice kissed a guilty world in love.
This is no God of our own understanding but the I AM of the scriptures.
God loves his enemies, if he didn't you would have never come to faith. He demonstrated his love to us all(including his enemies) while we were yet sinners.
Like I have already said, the bible is my truth. I'm not about to invent my own theology to fit what I believe God should be like.
Hey no problem. I too was sold out to your point of view in the past.
Just a simple change in your view on how God see's the lost sinner, may just help a little. I found a big change in my attitude when i saw how he was seeing, i must add this change of attitude began a while before i had even heard of Universal Reconcilation.
I commend you for being loving, forgiving and merciful to all. After all this is the command given to us by Jesus.
However I don't understand how you project what we, God's creatures are commanded to do onto God Himself, as if because we are commanded to do something then God also is requires to do the same.
Like I have said before, you are welcome to have such a belief but it's not something that is taught in the bible. The bible speaks of God's love as being very particular. He loves His own children and the rest of humankind is at emnity with God as the bible puts it. In other words they are His enemies. What about Essau? The bible state that God Hated him.
I can fully understand why people desire to create a God of their own understanding. Almighty God is a fearful God. He does not conform to what our human nature tells us God should be like.
How many times have I heard my own children cry out, "That's not fair Dad. Well, when people read the bible and there is a truth stated in there that is very clearly stated they cry, "It's not fair", God just can't be like that".
Many people think that God owes them something. He actually does because He promises it. That something is Justice. That's all He owes human kind. Out of His own sovereignity and will He decided to set aside a portion of humanity that will recieve something else. That something else is Grace. Defined as,"unearned favour". Those particular people He sets apart and regenerates them into the likeness of Jesus.
So, in this world we can get either justice from God which is all we can expect or we can be objects of His grace and thereby inherit eternal life.
Christ said we must love our enemies in order to be like our father in heaven(Luke 6:27-36). And Christ is the manifest image of God, so if Christ loved his enemies and told us to love our enemies in order to be like our father, than i believe it is safe to assume that in fact the father does love his enemies.
Concerning the words of Paul when he wrote referred to the old testament story of God preferring Jacob over Esau from the womb before either oine had done anything, the word their translated as hate is the same word Christ used when he commanded that one must hate their mother and father and their children in they are to follow him(Luke 14:26) ...
The meaning of the word in this context is not what we understand hate to mean, but the meaning is to prefer ...
Christ is saying that one must prefer him to all our loved ones and even to ourselves in order to follow him.
And in the same way God loved Jacob while Esau he hated or that is to say that God preferred Jacob to Esau.
OF course the old testament talks allot about God hating his enemies and about eye for an eye justice, as that was how the carnal minded ancient Hebrew people perceived God, but Christ correcting these errors of the old law of the carnal nature and of sin and death(Luke 6:27-36).
Christ revealed the real truth of God who loves his enemies and overcomes evil with good instead of returning eye for an eye. Christ revealed that God was good to the ungrateful and the wicked(Luke 6:35), and Christ prayed that the father forgive the people who rejected him and murdered him(Luke 23:34) ...
That is the example Christ gave to us about the true nature of the father, that he loved us before we ever loved him and he died for all people even while we were yet his enemies(1 John 4:19, Romans 5:10).
Like I have already said, the bible is my truth. I'm not about to invent my own theology to fit what I believe God should be like.
Funny thing though, lucknow, there are a lot of people who would also say the BIBLE is their truth with whom you would likely disagree on many points. Which is why it is kind of a moot point when people say, "you need to join a 'BIBLE-believing' church". My town is covered with 'BIBLE-believing churches and they don't agree on a lot of things (but most of them agree on eternal torment for the lost). They can only find agreement at the lowest common denominator. But that one point is the thing that keeps me from joining any of them because I find it to be a VERY IMPORTANT doctrine -- the very character of God hinges on it.
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