Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So the scriptures say he came to seek and save the lost,was he only able to find a few of the lost to save them?.
You know when Jesus said "If i be lifted up from the earth i will draw all men to me",what do you think this means ?
Or are you another who is saying he only came to save the lost that are chosen ?.
It's pretty obvious what that means. It means He will draw All men to Himself. Those men He Has already talked about in His ministry. Those the Father Gives to Him. All of them, every one of them will come to faith. That is the irresistable Grace of God. Those who's names are written in the book of life will be saved. Their names were in that book before the foundation of the world.
How is it at all possible that you could think that Jesus ment all people will be drawn to Him? Look out your front door and tell me all people are drawn to the Lord Jesus Christ. Millions despise Him or don't even believe He existed. Do you believe that the Lord of the Universe was wrong? That's the whole problem with heretical beliefs. Many believe that Jesus couldn't be wrong and so therefore they create beliefs that are totally unbiblical based on a word that they misunderstand while at the same time doing violence to everything we know that is as clear as crystal from the teachings in God's word.
Take a look at God's creation and see the order and logic that is displayed. Everything from the macro to the micro displays this. From the stars in their courses to the structure of an atom.
God's plans for His world and His creatures are the same. His word displays perfect order and logic expressed in such a way that we, His creatures can gain a little understanding of God's nature and His plans for His creation. Of course their are many things that we just can't understand or never will while we inhabit this world. This inability to understand all of God's purposes is no excuse for us to create our own false ideas about God. The pride of Man is the greatest sin of them all. Man demands to understand everything. Can you understand how God created the universe out of nothing by a word? Can you understand how God can be omnipresent, omnipotent, All knowing, perfect in every way? Of course we can't understand these things. We can only believe and trust in them. We believe and trust in them because God has caused our dead hearts, in the bible referred to as "Hearts of stone" to be changed into hearts that are alive to His truth,"hearts of flesh".
I just praise His name that I, dreadful sinner that I am can call Him my abba Father and be sure of His steadfast love for me. I just praise Him for looking at me and seeing the perfection of His son and Not the filthy rags that cover me.
I just praise His name that I, dreadful sinner that I am can call Him my abba Father and be sure of His steadfast love for me. I just praise Him for looking at me and seeing the perfection of His son and Not the filthy rags that cover me.
So although He's the Savior of all(1 Tim 4:10), he only draws some of the all. Though he came to seek and save the lost, only a few of the lost were found ? Spiritually i have not met a person yet who was not lost. So according to your belief he came to seek only the chosen few of the lost and not all the lost,Correct ?.
The world was in Christ when He died i know this is hard for the natural man to accept because he thinks he's in Christ only when he believes, Christ died before any believed(Romans 6:8), ......For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.1 Cor 15:22
Do you believe that God's love begins towards a man, once he believes ?, or was it so from the beginning and demonstrated to him, to leave him in no doubt of it, by dying for him while he was still in sin ?.
I know this will get you and all who believe like you wound up, that is not my intention. Since you think you are on the ball with everything that is written...................Do you have a scripture where God limit's himself to man's limited 3 score and 10 plus years to be able to cause him to believe ?
Did you not read the very first post.......post #1. This entire OP is based on answering that very question.
I appreciate your effort to attempt to turn this into a UR debate ... but I'm beyond that. This is only to get people to see what Jesus actually says vs. what the wanton belief that goes beyond what is written.
Foom post #1
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Notice the order of sequence that Jesus used:
He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;
and whoever lives and believes in me will never die"
Jesus is very clear about what comes first:
belief in Jesus before death (1. lives and 2. believes will never die... )
Contrary to wanton belief..Jesus doesn't say:
All eventually will come to believe in me, even though he dies;
All will come to believe in me and will live, even though he dies rejecting me;
All paths will come to me and will find life
And the second contrary to wanton belief..Jesus doesn't say:
and whoever dies will then be given the opportunity to believe in me will never die
and whoever lives and not believes in me will never die, because it's not fair.
God's will for time of salvation is for those who
1. Lives (living)
2. and then believes
Jesus knows what happens to the unbeliever after death.
John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.”
Did you not read the very first post.......post #1. This entire OP is based on answering that very question.
I appreciate your effort to attempt to turn this into a UR debate ... but I'm beyond that. This is only to get people to see what Jesus actually says vs. what the wanton belief that goes beyond what is written.
Foom post #1
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Notice the order of sequence that Jesus used:
He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;
and whoever lives and believes in me will never die"
Jesus is very clear about what comes first:
belief in Jesus before death (1. lives and 2. believes will never die... )
Contrary to wanton belief..Jesus doesn't say:
All eventually will come to believe in me, even though he dies;
All will come to believe in me and will live, even though he dies rejecting me;
All paths will come to me and will find life
And the second contrary to wanton belief..Jesus doesn't say:
and whoever dies will then be given the opportunity to believe in me will never die
and whoever lives and not believes in me will never die, because it's not fair.
God's will for time of salvation is for those who
1. Lives (living)
2. and then believes
Jesus knows what happens to the unbeliever after death.
John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.â€
Twin you use scriptures in your OP which you think are scriptures that prove UR is not true, and then you congratulate me for turning it into a UR debate.
So you do not have a "it's written" verse to answer my genuine question ?
New buzz phrase of the week: "wanton belief". Never heard of such before. But I think I catch the drift it is meant to send. It makes me want a bowl of won-ton soup.
That is complete illogical reasoning. There is one thing that God can not do. He can not lie. God tells us that we will face his judgement for our sins and we will pay a price being found guilty. This price is separation from Himself. That's the real description of what awaits the sinner after death. He will go to a place where there there is no communion with God.
Of course God will judge sin. No argument about that. However, the words you just quoted are your own opinion about what you think the bible teaches. To most fundamentalist types - the word judgment itself is a "bad" thing. I'm glad God will judge sin and do away with it - how else could God save man if he did not judge and condemn sin in the flesh?
God's plans for His world and His creatures are the same. His word displays perfect order and logic expressed in such a way that we, His creatures can gain a little understanding of God's nature and His plans for His creation. Of course their are many things that we just can't understand or never will while we inhabit this world. This inability to understand all of God's purposes is no excuse for us to create our own false ideas about God. The pride of Man is the greatest sin of them all. Man demands to understand everything. Can you understand how God created the universe out of nothing by a word? Can you understand how God can be omnipresent, omnipotent, All knowing, perfect in every way? Of course we can't understand these things. We can only believe and trust in them. We believe and trust in them because God has caused our dead hearts, in the bible referred to as "Hearts of stone" to be changed into hearts that are alive to His truth,"hearts of flesh".
What may i ask as any of this to do with whether God is able and willing to save all.
What i do know and understand his the nature of God and the heart of God within me. Also the witness within me, if i am willing to be loving,forgiving and merciful to all by the life within me , how much more is our heavenly Father able ?.
Twin you use scriptures in your OP which you think are scriptures that prove UR is not true, and then you congratulate me for turning it into a UR debate.
So you do not have a "it's written" verse to answer my genuine question ?
Maybe you feel that way because of your sensitivity to it. Yes I congradulate you because UR does not have a monoply on the concept.
Lot of different religions\beliefs promote something other than: John 8:24 John 11:25 1 Corinthians 1:21
Some call it purgatory, other reincarnation, others it's Eastern Mysticism, still others atheism.....you just happen to resolve it by calling it "UR"
Matthew 5-20
"For I tell you, uunless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of heaven".
Matthew 5-30
"For it's better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into Hell".
Matthew 7, 13-14
Jusus speaking of heaven
"Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. Fot the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to lifeand those who fond it are few".
Mat.12-32 "Whoever speaks against the Holy spirit will not be forgiven either in this age or the age to come."
Mat. 25- 41
Jesus teaching on The final Judgement.
"Then He, {Speaking of Himself}, will say to those on his left,Depart from me you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels".
vs.46
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
I don't know what you folks are talking about but it's very obvious you do not believe in the clear words of Christ!!!!!!
You can believe what ever you want but please do not call it Christian because it just isn't.
Maybe you feel that way because of your sensitivity to it. Yes I congradulate you because UR does not have a monoply on the concept.
Lot of different religions\beliefs promote something other than: John 8:24 John 11:25 1 Corinthians 1:21
Some call it purgatory, other reincarnation, others it's Eastern Mysticism, still others atheism.....you just happen to resolve it by calling it "UR"
Sensitivity to what ?. I know in whom i have believed and i am fully persuaded, without staggering, strengthened in faith in the knowledge that he is the Savior of All too. I believe in a God who is not only able but willing too.
You still do not have a scripture for my question i take it ?.
Fundamental Christianity promotes a different message too, to what the scriptures promote.
I want any fundemental christian who is disillusioned with fundamental christianity, to know that there is life after walking away from it.When you do, God's grace will remain on your life, i'm a living testimony to it.God loves you, he's for you not against you,he will restore all that tradition as taken away from you and the greatest thing will be the burden of religion that rolls off your shoulders. I encourage you to see yourself and others how God see's you.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
.
