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IMO,it is what is ,has been, or is yet to be written in our hearts that will eventually save us..
Not what is written and interpreted by man..
Not the label we may or may not wear that associates us to a building, doctrine or group..
Not by how many bible verses we memorize.
Not by how many debates we enter into and declare ourselves the winner.
It is about knowing, loving and showing the Christ in you..
Fear of sin will not save us..Loving Him and our neighbors as ourselves does..
It's all up to Him, not us. I agree with you on this. Just as I agree with you that He is the One who controls all things, including what can or cannot come upon us all, whether earthquakes, storms, wars or other. I would say that the "stink" of Adam is still around us, and still causing problems in people and in the creation; but only He lets it happen, and will remove it completely in His time, when the Sons of God are manifested more fully.
My point about Love, is that it is precisely His Love and Goodness that draw us to Him; at least that has been my own experience. Not a deep feeling of guilt for sin, or fear of hell; no, it was God's Love and Kindness to me that drew me to Him.
I'm not a Christian but on the other hand i'm also not a bad person. Opinionated, but not bad.
I treat people the way I would like to be treated in return. I give to those who need it, I speak up against what I consider to be wrong and I defend those who can't always defend themselves.
Sure, I screw up but I make amends and learn from my mistakes.
None of these are Christian values, they're common sense.
This topic is telling in many ways, "afraid you might sin"? Really, are your so called christian morals so feeble or ineffective that this is a problem? They just control you when you're thinking about it, and that caught off guard you don't have a true moral standard that is 'you', and might sin?
Christians are often totally incapable of perceiving that an Atheist can be moral, for we don't buy into the 'fear based morality' that christians do. I have no doubt or fear that I might do something against my 'moral values', for they are not a fear based set of rules, they are part of me. The do this and here are the consequences (burning in hell forever or whatever) is a very poor way to control anyone behavior or actions. It is how some people choose to raise children, setting the stage for never developing a true personal moral ethics.
My moral values are part of ME, they are natural, not fear based on irrational concepts or punishment.
Sounds to me that christians understand that 'christian morals' are just a list of action vs. unproven consequences (going to hell or whatever) thus are weak, flawed, and fallible, and the fear of sinning is a doubt christians have, yet lack the courage or intelligence to acknowledge or articulate.
I tell you there are SO MANY UNIVERSALIST that are preaching the Doctrine of the Nicolaitans. They preach that as long as God is going to save everyone do as you desire.
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I've never read this by one who believes in the salvation of all either. Can you please post an example? Thanks and God bless.
IMO,it is what is ,has been, or is yet to be written in our hearts that will eventually save us..
Not what is written and interpreted by man..
Not the label we may or may not wear that associates us to a building, doctrine or group..
Not by how many bible verses we memorize.
Not by how many debates we enter into and declare ourselves the winner.
It is about knowing, loving and showing the Christ in you..
Fear of sin will not save us..Loving Him and our neighbors as ourselves does..
This topic is telling in many ways, "afraid you might sin"? Really, are your so called christian morals so feeble or ineffective that this is a problem? They just control you when you're thinking about it, and that caught off guard you don't have a true moral standard that is 'you', and might sin?
Christians are often totally incapable of perceiving that an Atheist can be moral, for we don't buy into the 'fear based morality' that christians do. I have no doubt or fear that I might do something against my 'moral values', for they are not a fear based set of rules, they are part of me. The do this and here are the consequences (burning in hell forever or whatever) is a very poor way to control anyone behavior or actions. It is how some people choose to raise children, setting the stage for never developing a true personal moral ethics.
My moral values are part of ME, they are natural, not fear based on irrational concepts or punishment.
Sounds to me that christians understand that 'christian morals' are just a list of action vs. unproven consequences (going to hell or whatever) thus are weak, flawed, and fallible, and the fear of sinning is a doubt christians have, yet lack the courage or intelligence to acknowledge or articulate.
You make a great statements there. Atheist can indeed be NICE to others. Jesus went on to make sure that we understood the difference between the morality that many speak of and that expected of the TRUE Christian. He said:
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
So obviously to just have morals is NOT evidence of a Christian. It doesn't even set you apart from the rest. To be a Christian is to manifest love to those that hate and persecute you. The Atheist has no motivation such as that defined by Christ here. For the Christian does so out of love - NOT fear.
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We cannot continue to fornicate with this world and expect to receive the next...
I haven't had much of a chance to fornicate with this world. It has fornicated me without permission quite regularly over the past few years .
Sometimes I just shake my head at those who seem to think we who subscribe in UR spend our time reclining on a chaise lounge, eating grapes, enjoying literal or figurative orgies of disobedience, knowing we can do whatever the heck we want because the price has been paid for all of us (and like we all look for every little opportunity to sin because it's already paid for; awfully simplistic AND WRONG). Life has been quite grueling for me and many others for the past few years, to be quite honest.
Sometimes I just shake my head at those who seem to think we who subscribe in UR spend our time reclining on a chaise lounge, eating grapes, enjoying literal or figurative orgies of disobedience, knowing we can do whatever the heck we want because the price has been paid for all of us (and like we all look for every little opportunity to sin because it's already paid for; awfully simplistic AND WRONG). Life has been quite grueling for me and many others for the past few years, to be quite honest.
Grueling? Maybe God is trying to steer you in the right direction.
You make a great statements there. Atheist can indeed be NICE to others. Jesus went on to make sure that we understood the difference between the morality that many speak of and that expected of the TRUE Christian. He said:
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
So obviously to just have morals is NOT evidence of a Christian. It doesn't even set you apart from the rest. To be a Christian is to manifest love to those that hate and persecute you. The Atheist has no motivation such as that defined by Christ here. For the Christian does so out of love - NOT fear.
True for some, but I see a lot of paralyzing fear expressed by others, with a recent thread filled with the irrational fear satan is after him. The most common non-reason the theist questions a non-believer, Pascal's Wager, nothing but an attempt to sell the fear of "what if you are wrong".
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