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The bible is very clear of no such thing ... What the bible is clear about is the fact that God is the one who gives us repentance and faith so that we come to believe in Christ. We do not choose him, he choses us ... He pours his spirit out on us and his spirit works within us to produce the fruits of the spirit so that we desire and do the things that please him.
It has nothing to do with the natural volition of humans ... It has everything to do with the timing of Gods plan to reconcile all things to himself in Christ. Paul is more than clear about predestination and that it is God who hardens peoples hearts and who gives us repentance and faith. Christ is the great physician, and he will heal the entire creation of sin and death, and God will one day be all and in all ... No one will remain separated from him for ever, because he devises the means so that all those who are outcast will not remain banished from him for ever(2 Samuel 14:14).
Hell is a pagan myth interpolated into the scriptures by the roman catholic church through subtle translation errors throughout the texts of both the old and new testaments. This began when Jerom translated the letters of the new testament from Greek into latin, and the error grew greater as the letters where much later translated into old English.
The original meaning of the word hell in the old English and germanic is "to cover"(as in hel-met, to cover the head) and refers to the grave where all people go according to ancient Nordic Mythology, though the translators of the KJV misused the word in order to interpolate the false doctrine of eternal torture even further into the scriptures at the time of it was translated.
Dang, this is one time I wish the rep system would let you rep someone twice in 24 hrs.!!! Thank you Ironmaw, I love you!!
The old "wanna buy a bridge" sales pitch ......
Didn't Jesus say those who want to cross from one side to another aren't able to because:
" 'a great chasm has been fixed so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ "
Just who created this "chasm" ..... wow what a win win for those who reject Jesus.
I never knew that Jesus could so easly bs so many like sponge bob's imagination.
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Didn't Christ conquer hell? And who has the keys? I seem to remember, in some bible class way back when, that Christ emptied hell and has the keys... Does he lock people in or people out? IYO
(disclaimer: usage of the word hell is meant for easy understanding of what is being asked and does not indicate any actual belief in said hell.)
Ilene, I don't know quite what you believe but it doesn 't match up with God.. 1 Timothy 2:4 Who would have all men saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. That is God's will for all of us because he loves us, but we do know that God's will is not done.
Even Jesus mourned over Jerusalem .
Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which kill the prophets, and stone them that are sent to you; how often would I have gathered your children together, as a hen does gather her brood under her wings, and you would not!
Many rejected Christ in the flesh , they did not do the will of God. Not everyone gets into the kingdom of heaven.
I don't know how you became convinced of this , the bible is very clear that it is up to the will of the individual to choose Christ or not.
Do not be decieved , for many will turn to a message that does not line up with the word of God.
Can I ask... Perhaps you know... Where are those inhabitants of Jerusalem now? the ones who killed the prophets?
I always think that it is funny, and a little sad, when i hear Christians say that "Gods will is not done".
What is the point of praying that Gods will be done if you don't believe that it will ever be done in the first place?
Oh ye of little faith, the people of God come to destruction because of a lack of understanding.
Gods will is done, and he works out all things according to the counsel of his own will ... not according to the counsel of the will of men.
God will have all people to be saved, and he is the savior of all people. He is God, and nothing is impossible for him ... His word will accomplish everything that he sent him into this world to do.
I wish everyone did the will of God... we would not need a savior. Not everyone prays to God.
Satan himself knew who God was and did not follow him. He did his own will which Satan wanted to replace God with himself , wanting to be higher than God.
Not everyone who thinks they know God will get into Heaven. Many will go astray, many will lose their first love and grow cold. There are seducing spirits that will lead them away from the true God .
Many go their own way into witchcraft or secular humanism or unbelief, or various forms of false religions, and many walk in the flesh feeding the flesh instead of feeding the spirit. They mock God and curse Jesus. The unpardonabe sin is rejecting the Holy Spirit. Some in the old testament sought forgiveness and found none. God is also a just God.
God in more powerful that we could imagine in our limited minds. His glory and power, and wisdom is unending and abounds in dimensions we know nothing about. His holiness and intricate knowing is beyond comprehension and his supreme spirit is magnified in unmeasured amounts of unlimited boundaries. His names are many because he is the total of all knowledge.
Those without God's Holy Spirit are opened to all that satan can do to them . Satan is subtle and decieves many.
To ask God for his divine protection is essential in todays world . May many turn to God and Jesus as their savior and know his endless love for them and peace and goodness for which God gives so freely.
Can I ask... Perhaps you know... Where are those inhabitants of Jerusalem now? the ones who killed the prophets?
More prophets will be killed before the second return of Jesus. Many rejected Christ and hung him on a cross. His deciples were presecuted and killed. John the Baptist was beheaded.
Many were killed for spreading the gospel. Many more will be rejected and killed for spreading the word of God . It is written
It is the evilness of mankind that killed Christ as he came to save them and bring them the good news of eternal life.
Then Jesus is cursing the people on his left or hallucinating that they are there.
About the nation thing .... check again in Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9, Revelation 11:9,
Same for all those verses.
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
cf. Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
cf. Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
Your point on chapter 11 is irrelevant to the matter. Word proofing nonetheless...subject matter...is apart from it.
About Matt 25 again, I wonder who the people on the left and right are? He says earlier...sheeps and goats...all denote Israelites...no other people were acquainted with those two animals....
Last edited by sciotamicks; 05-26-2011 at 08:12 PM..
I wish everyone did the will of God... we would not need a savior. Not everyone prays to God.
Every Knee will one day bow, and every tongue will one day openly and willingly confess that Christ is lord to the Glory of God. When we have faith in the power of Christ to accomplish all the desires of God, we confess the things that are not as though they were ... As they one day will be.
God uses evil to teach us a lessons in life, we would not even know what Good is without a knowledge of evil. God has a very good reason for the way the world is now, and he will make everything new in the end.
Quote:
Satan himself knew who God was and did not follow him. He did his own will which Satan wanted to replace God with himself , wanting to be higher than God.
Not everyone who thinks they know God will get into Heaven. Many will go astray, many will lose their first love and grow cold. There are seducing spirits that will lead them away from the true God .
You need to get you tenses straight, as well as your understanding of audience relevance. Not everyone Christ was speaking to(the Jews) "may be entering"(aorist) into the reign of heaven, but all will be reconciled to God through the reign of heaven. Though the jews were blinded and made enemies of the gospel for the sake of the world, all Israel will never the less be saved. Not everyone will reign with Christ, but all will finally be drawn to him and saved.
Quote:
Many go their own way into witchcraft or secular humanism or unbelief, or various forms of false religions, and many walk in the flesh feeding the flesh instead of feeding the spirit. They mock God and curse Jesus. The unpardonabe sin is rejecting the Holy Spirit. Some in the old testament sought forgiveness and found none. God is also a just God.
People mock God and curse Jesus for many reason, most of all because they are carnal natural humans who have yet to be spiritually quickened and they cannot comprehend the spiritual things of God, they think they are foolishness. Only when God renews their minds and hearts and quickens them spiritually will they finally confess Christ is lord.
People also mock God and curse Christ because God and Christ are so grievously misrepresented by the words and deeds of many people who subscribe to the traditional Christian religion. As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you." ...
Quote:
God in more powerful that we could imagine in our limited minds. His glory and power, and wisdom is unending and abounds in dimensions we know nothing about. His holiness and intricate knowing is beyond comprehension and his supreme spirit is magnified in unmeasured amounts of unlimited boundaries. His names are many because he is the total of all knowledge.
Those without God's Holy Spirit are opened to all that satan can do to them . Satan is subtle and decieves many.
To ask God for his divine protection is essential in todays world . May many turn to God and Jesus as their savior and know his endless love for them and peace and goodness for which God gives so freely.
Its not about us, or "the wise decision" you believe that we made, it is about the work that God has done in our lives. He will do the same in the lives of all people, either here and now in this life, or after the resurrection. As it is written "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive." Believe it, because it is true ... The gospel really is Good news for all people, even if you or they cant believe it at this time.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 05-26-2011 at 08:15 PM..
More prophets will be killed before the second return of Jesus. Many rejected Christ and hung him on a cross. His deciples were presecuted and killed. John the Baptist was beheaded.
Many were killed for spreading the gospel. Many more will be rejected and killed for spreading the word of God . It is written
It is the evilness of mankind that killed Christ as he came to save them and bring them the good news of eternal life.
Actually, if you look at the timeline... That comment was spoken about the past prophets who were killed by Israel when they didn't heed the message of those prophets. So there is no need to apply it to the future as well. He is strictly talking about his own present...existing, Jerusalem.
My point was for you to answer the question posed, however.
Okay, so I won't argue if there is an actual hell.
I will argue that on this Earth, fear is necessary, but it should not be fear of God.
Really? Why? Is that the motivation for "morality" in christians, actually just a "fear" of retribution later.
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