Do You believe in ET, UR or annihilation (or other) (Holy Spirit, baptized)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Answered.... Just because you didn't like the answer doesn't mean it wasn't answered. To which answer you replied:
Is that the equivalent of holding your hands over your ears?
Or is this the question you didn't get an answer to?
I gave you the definition of consequences:
To which you reply:
?????? And you wonder why BHFT commented on your reading comprehension? Now you say you don't want to speak with me? Is that deliberately being deaf or blind or what?
What ails you Finn?
Obviously you are the one who has trouble following what is going on here. You seem to enjoy spending most of your time here bickering over nothing. This post is a typical post from you. It contains nothing but meaningless harping against other posters.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 09-26-2011 at 06:53 AM..
The same God-fire that tests the works of the Christians will also chasten and correct the sinners.
I have been told that there is no such thing as age-during chastisement after death. The "chastisement" is done right here while we live. I wonder what happens to those who keep sinning until they die? I guess they must be taken directly to heaven as there is no time for "corrective chatisement".
But of course the Bible teaches something completely different.
You're evading the issue. Paul was talking to believers.
Absolutely. It is important to realize who he was talking to and who he was talking about. Sometimes it is about Jews, sometimes followers of Christ, sometimes unbelievers and sometimes demons. Pcamps has taken the verses completely out of context.
The same God-fire that tests the works of the Christians will also chasten and correct the sinners.
Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46.
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."
See what other Greek scholars say about it too.
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS Chapter Eleven
"Even if fiery judgment and tormenting darkness fall upon you, it will last no longer than till the Great Fire of God has melted all arrogance into humility, and all that is self has died in the bloody sweat and all-saving cross of the Christ, which will never give up its redeeming power till sin and sinners have no more a name among the creatures of God."
While the believer is enjoying aionion life, the unbeliever will experience kolasis aionion Matthew 25:46 (which means age-during corrective chastisement). Then, at the end of the ages, both eonian life and eonian corrective chastisement will come to an end, and eternity will continue with everyone saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.
Here is a snippet from THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY
“Only as one sees God’s Plan of the Ages do they see the beauty of God’s Program for the redemption of the race.
Heb. 11:3 should read, “Through faith we understand that the ages were planned by the Word of God.” The ages will collectively end. A literal translation of Heb. 9:26 is, ‘But now, once for all, with a view to the end of the ages, has He been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.’
Throughout the eons there is sin and evil, condemnation and death. At the end of the eons all will be justified (Rom. 5:18,19), and all will be reconciled through Christ’s blood (Col. 1:20).
When you perceive the truth concerning the ages your Bible will become a new and more wonderful book than you knew you had.”
The same God-fire that tests the works of the Christians will also chasten and correct the sinners.
Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46.
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."
See what other Greek scholars say about it too.
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS Chapter Eleven
"Even if fiery judgment and tormenting darkness fall upon you, it will last no longer than till the Great Fire of God has melted all arrogance into humility, and all that is self has died in the bloody sweat and all-saving cross of the Christ, which will never give up its redeeming power till sin and sinners have no more a name among the creatures of God."
While the believer is enjoying aionion life, the unbeliever will experience kolasis aionion Matthew 25:46 (which means age-during corrective chastisement). Then, at the end of the ages, both eonian life and eonian corrective chastisement will come to an end, and eternity will continue with everyone saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will.
Here is a snippet from THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY
“Only as one sees God’s Plan of the Ages do they see the beauty of God’s Program for the redemption of the race.
Heb. 11:3 should read, “Through faith we understand that the ages were planned by the Word of God.” The ages will collectively end. A literal translation of Heb. 9:26 is, ‘But now, once for all, with a view to the end of the ages, has He been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.’
Throughout the eons there is sin and evil, condemnation and death. At the end of the eons all will be justified (Rom. 5:18,19), and all will be reconciled through Christ’s blood (Col. 1:20).
When you perceive the truth concerning the ages your Bible will become a new and more wonderful book than you knew you had.”
Exactly Rodger
And this is what Finn Jarber and the rest of the ET'ers are failing to see. What God is correcting in man through and by fire, is the arrogance and pride in him, which causes him to be how he is, he is not punishing him for his sin.He is the great physician and when he cuts you open, it's not to punish you for sin, but to cure you of it. Acts 2:37
When Jesus speaking to those arrogant full of pride stonethrowers,there is no doubt in my mind that they all got burnt when Jesus rebuked them and said "he that is without sin let him cast the first stone".
Whenever God reveals his beauty,glory,mercy,love and grace to us, it is not so we have the warm fuzzy's it's to do a work in our hearts(conforming us to his image). Unfortunately for many of us it is about the warm fuzzy's and feeling good just like the wicked servant who had all is debt wiped clean,yet he still held to the same punishment mentality he had prior to his debt being wiped clean. Jesus told this parable to change our way of how we see others, obviously fundamental christianity does not get it(still through it's hardness of heart believes in punishment). When will it learn to show the same mercy it's been shown ?.
He remember we are but dust.
If he marked our transgressions who could stand ? .
The same God-fire that tests the works of the Christians will also chasten and correct the sinners.
Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46.
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."
Sorry, but the above is not in sync with the "chastisement before death" doctrine which has now been introduced as new universalist teaching. Why use terms like "age-during" if all chastisement is done before death.
Of course this teaching creates a contradiction with Preston Eby who says:
"Even if fiery judgment and tormenting darkness fall upon you, it will last no longer than till the Great Fire of God has melted all arrogance into humility,
If all people are chastised to such point that all arrogance has melted away, and the chastisement happens while we live, then that would mean NO ONE has ever died, or will ever die with any hint of arrogance in their hearts. But we know this is not true.
So, who is right: pcamps and katonjj or you and Preston Eby?
The word of God is for whosoever. If you want to believe what is written in the way you do(for christians),on that basis, then most of scripture is not written to you,because if that is the case much of it is written to the children of Israel .
The scriptures are not exclusive to christianity.
I didn't say it all was. The passage in question was written to believers.
Absolutely. It is important to realize who he was talking to and who he was talking about. Sometimes it is about Jews, sometimes followers of Christ, sometimes unbelievers and sometimes demons. Pcamps has taken the verses completely out of context.
Well if it's sometimes Jews, you might as well rip Matthew to John out of your bible,becausae it was jews he was speaking to for the best part.
What is a follower of Christ ? Someone who says they believe in Jesus and the Bible ?
Salvation out of the lake of fire which is the 2nd death
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Sorry, but the above is not in sync with the "chastisement before death" doctrine which has now been introduced as new universalist teaching. Why use terms like "age-during" if all chastisement is done before death.
Of course this teaching creates a contradiction with Preston Eby who says:
"Even if fiery judgment and tormenting darkness fall upon you, it will last no longer than till the Great Fire of God has melted all arrogance into humility,
If all people are chastised to such point that all arrogance has melted away, and the chastisement happens while we live, then that would mean NO ONE has ever died, or will ever die with any hint of arrogance in their hearts. But we know this is not true.
So, who is right: pcamps and katonjj or you and Preston Eby?
The chastisement I am speaking of is the lake of fire which is the second death which happens during the age that follows the great white throne judgment.
Everyone will be saved out of it because God will have (wants if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of Hiswill” (Ephesians 1:11)
Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants if you like.
Because God says
"My counsel shall stand. I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11
Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose him? He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him)
Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)
So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.
His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.
His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen? Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.
Any cooperation towards our salvation is the result, not the cause of God laying hold on us by His saving grace and causing Jesus to be choice in our heart, just like it was in the case of Lydia and Saul of Tarsus.
A snippet from THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY
“Only as one sees God’s Plan of the Ages do they see the beauty of God’s Program for the redemption of the race. Heb. 11:3 should read, “Through faith we understand that the ages were planned by the Word of God.”
The ages will collectively end. A literal translation of Heb. 9:26 is, ‘But now, once for all, with a view to the end of the ages, has He been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.’
Throughout the eons there is sin and evil, condemnation and death. At the end of the eons all will be justified (Rom. 5:18,19), and all will be reconciled through Christ’s blood (Col. 1:20).
When you perceive the truth concerning the ages your Bible will become a new and more wonderful book than you knew you had.”
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
??? And you wonder why BHFT commented on your reading comprehension? Now you say you don't want to speak with me? Is that deliberately being deaf or blind or what?
The saving nature of God's fire
