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This is true. God's word has been preserved down through history.
Actually...when you look into it, it hasn't. When you study the history of the New Testament, you find that all we have is copies of copies of copies of copies of the originals...and with over 30,000 different readings that were found. Various blessed attempts have been made, by very valiant individuals, over the centuries to re-create the "original superior text." Some of these efforts would last over 20 years at a time. Some of them failed completely...and some of them did a lot of good. But it is known for a fact that intentional changes were made. There are footnotes on ancient manuscripts found that say things to the effect of "you fool!! Leave the original text intact!!"
I believe Peter, as well as most all the church, was decieved by Paul. Yahushua said that even the very elect could be decieved, in Matthew chapter 24. Why do I believe this?
Paul, after three years, finally goes for a visit to the disciples, and Peter tells Paul, ok, just tell the gentiles all they have to do is refrain from eating food that has been sacrificed to idols and refrain from sexual sin. What does Paul do? He tells us in 1 Corinthians chapter 8 that it's ok to eat food offered to idols. Hunh? Yahushua Himself tells us in Revelation it's not ok and it's a very serious sin.
Acts 15:20
Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from eating food offered to idols, from sexual immorality, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from consuming blood.
Acts 21:25
“As for the Gentile believers, they should do what we already told them in a letter: They should abstain from eating food offered to idols, from consuming blood or the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality.”
1 Corinthians 8:1 (Paul)
Now regarding your question about food that has been offered to idols. Yes, we know that “we all have knowledge” about this issue. But while knowledge makes us feel important, it is love that strengthens the church.
*Now, who did Yahushua say He was going to build His church with? Was it Paul or Peter? And just in case you might think Yahushua backs Paul...
Revelation 2:14
“But I have a few complaints against you. You tolerate some among you whose teaching is like that of Balaam, who showed Balak how to trip up the people of Israel. He taught them to sin by eating food offered to idols and by committing sexual sin.
Revelation 2:20
“But I have this complaint against you. You are permitting that woman—that Jezebel who calls herself a prophet—to lead my servants astray. She teaches them to commit sexual sin and to eat food offered to idols.
Now, if you continue to listen to Paul after what I just showed you, you have some serious problems.
So you see, Paul, convinces and decieves Peter and the rest of the disciples to stray from the Messiah's great commision, and then Paul doesn't even listen to Peter's advise. What is the truth? Is there more than one gospel - to the jews and to the gentiles?
18 Jesus came and told his disciples, “I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. 19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. 20 Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Pay very close attention to that Great Commission right there. Who is Yahushua speaking to? The Jews. Who are they supposed to teach too? The Gentiles. What are the gentiles supposed to do? The same exact thing as the jews.
We are to stop sinning. Get water baptized (after that, and only after that, do we get filled with the Holy Spirit and are born again). And as Yahushua taught, were supposed to obey the Ten Commandments, in which He himself magnified to the extreme.
So you mean to tell me, layman, pastor, christian, disciple of Yahushua the Messiah,... that your going to go with Paul after knowing what I've just showed you?
Did I just twist anything to my own destruction, or am I simply obeying the Messiah?
Please, show me how I'm twisting something to my own destruction... PLEASE!!!
I am 100% confident that when I go before Elohim on judgement day, He's not going to rebuke me for listening and obeying the Messiah. I believe it's Him who's revealed this to me accually, and it's a wonderfull blessing to know this.
The people who put the different books of the "Bible" together, are also the same exact ones who murdered our brothers and sisters for keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath. Think about it. Because they didn't honor the "Sun-Day" (venerable day of the sun), they were murdered and burned to death.
The "Bible" is a collection of many books and letters, which even leaves out Enoch for crying out loud. Enoch was one of the most widely read books of the church. Yahushua and all the Apostles read Enoch.
Wow, now I'm going off. But think about what I just revealed to you. It's the truth.
Revelation 2 (Yahushua's commendation)
You have examined the claims of those who say they are apostles but are not. You have discovered they are liars.
Peter, not understanding that Jesus' mission was to go to the cross to die for the sins of the world began to rebuke Jesus. He couldn't understand how the Messiah could die at the hands of the religious leaders. Therefore, Satan sought to use Peter to keep Jesus from the cross. Satan had earlier tried to get Jesus to take a shortcut (Matt 4:8-10) by bypassing the cross and accepting Satan's offer of the kingdom. The cross had to come before the crown. Peter didn't understand this, but Satan did. Therefore, Jesus directly addressed Satan when He said to Peter ''Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's.'' (Matt 16:23).
Jesus Christ is the God-Man. He is in hypostatic union. He is fully God, co-equal and co-eternal with the Father and with the Holy Spirit. At the moment of the virgin birth of His humanity He also became true humanity. During His First advent, Jesus laid aside the independent use of His deity in keeping with the Father's plan for the incarnation. Therefore, as man, Jesus could choose not to use the atttributes of His deity, which is why He could be ignorant about certain things.
Jesus, though without a sin nature, could still be tempted from without. By the world, and by Satan.
As the time of His betrayal, arrest, and crucifixion approached, He became distressed to the point of sweating blood. This was sorrow and distress such as He had never known in His earthly life. He told the disciples that He was deeply grieved, to the point of death (Matt 26:38). He knew that when the sins of the world were poured out on Him during the period of 12 noon to 3 PM., His fellowship with God the Father was going to be broken (Matt 27:46). Something which in all of eternity had never happened. And that was agonizing to Him. In addition, the thought of coming into contact with the sins of the world was repugnant to Him even though that is why He came into the world (2 Cor 5:21). In His moment of weakness, an angel from heaven appeared to Him to strengthen Him (Luke 22:43).
Yes, Jesus prayed that the cup He was to drink from could pass away, but He said to the Father, 'Your will be done' (Luke 22:42).
To what extent Satan pressured Jesus at this time, we can't know this side of heaven.
Your issues with the equality of Jesus Christ with the Father stem from not understanding the hypostatic union and Kenosis of Jesus Christ. I have gone into great detail about this on another thread a few months ago. You can research those terms. I'm not going to take the time to go into them here.
The gospel of John was not written 70 years after the crucifixion of Jesus. It is dated between 85 and 95 A.D. Some scholars have recently suggested an earlier date between 50 and 70 A.D. Skeptics like to give the gospels a late date in order to discredit them.
Before Jesus Christ paid for the sins of the world and access into the third heaven was open to believers as signified by the tearing of the veil in the temple, no believer went to heaven, but instead went to the Paradise side of Hades. Since the cross, heaven is now open to all believers. Regarding Elijah, after being taken up into heaven, not the third heaven, but the second heaven-the sky, he would have found himself in Paradise which at that time was part of Hades. The same is true of Enoch. The third heaven - the throne room of God was not open to any member of the human race until Jesus went to the cross.
We are in agreement that Jesus had the temptation from Satan to pray that the crucifixion would not happen.
As far as "not understanding the hypostatic union," well actually i do understand that concept all too well...and I do believe that can happen, and that it was the case with Jesus for most of the time...but that union can be temporarily broken and then re-established.
You wrote: "Yes, Jesus prayed that the cup He was to drink from could pass away, but He said to the Father, 'Your will be done' (Luke 22:42).
To what extent Satan pressured Jesus at this time, we can't know this side of heaven."
The fact that Jesus actually PRAYED means he wasn't just tempted, but took action. He in fact sinned if he prayed this, if only momentarily. We know that he knew that he was meant to be crucified, unless we take those OT scriptures that supposedly are regarding this to mean something else.
Now, out of fear of not believing he was God and what that means about your soul, you will most likely respond angrily at this, and without due logic...or maybe you won't respond that way. But I have overcome fear the same way Jesus did because I have truly followed him, and I have known the true alchemical path of transformation of the soul. Jesus made the right decision ultimately, because he most desired to do the Father's will...but his act of PRAYING was momentarily in error...the same way that even thinking about committing adultery is the same as doing it. Even praying for a moment that it would pass was the same as Jesus momentarily giving into the temptation. His reaction to Peter further establishes this.
I think we do know how much Satan pressured Jesus actually. He pressured him to the hilt. This, after all, was the one who was revealing and living the truth that the evil ones wanted to supress.
The Gospel of John was written probably 50-60 years after. You are most likely right. Still way too long after the fact...since for something so important, you would think that someone would write it down much sooner, rather than risk the possibility of dying before they had the chance.
I believe Peter, as well as most all the church, was decieved by Paul. Yahushua said that even the very elect could be decieved, in Matthew chapter 24. Why do I believe this?
Paul, after three years, finally goes for a visit to the disciples, and Peter tells Paul, ok, just tell the gentiles all they have to do is refrain from eating food that has been sacrificed to idols and refrain from sexual sin. What does Paul do? He tells us in 1 Corinthians chapter 8 that it's ok to eat food offered to idols. Hunh? Yahushua Himself tells us in Revelation it's not ok and it's a very serious sin.
Acts 15:20
Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from eating food offered to idols, from sexual immorality, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from consuming blood.
Acts 21:25
“As for the Gentile believers, they should do what we already told them in a letter: They should abstain from eating food offered to idols, from consuming blood or the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality.”
1 Corinthians 8:1 (Paul)
Now regarding your question about food that has been offered to idols. Yes, we know that “we all have knowledge” about this issue. But while knowledge makes us feel important, it is love that strengthens the church.
*Now, who did Yahushua say He was going to build His church with? Was it Paul or Peter? And just in case you might think Yahushua backs Paul...
Revelation 2:14
“But I have a few complaints against you. You tolerate some among you whose teaching is like that of Balaam, who showed Balak how to trip up the people of Israel. He taught them to sin by eating food offered to idols and by committing sexual sin.
Revelation 2:20
“But I have this complaint against you. You are permitting that woman—that Jezebel who calls herself a prophet—to lead my servants astray. She teaches them to commit sexual sin and to eat food offered to idols.
Now, if you continue to listen to Paul after what I just showed you, you have some serious problems.
So you see, Paul, convinces and decieves Peter and the rest of the disciples to stray from the Messiah's great commision, and then Paul doesn't even listen to Peter's advise. What is the truth? Is there more than one gospel - to the jews and to the gentiles?
18 Jesus came and told his disciples, “I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. 19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. 20 Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Pay very close attention to that Great Commission right there. Who is Yahushua speaking to? The Jews. Who are they supposed to teach too? The Gentiles. What are the gentiles supposed to do? The same exact thing as the jews.
We are to stop sinning. Get water baptized (after that, and only after that, do we get filled with the Holy Spirit and are born again). And as Yahushua taught, were supposed to obey the Ten Commandments, in which He himself magnified to the extreme.
So you mean to tell me, layman, pastor, christian, disciple of Yahushua the Messiah,... that your going to go with Paul after knowing what I've just showed you?
Did I just twist anything to my own destruction, or am I simply obeying the Messiah?
Please, show me how I'm twisting something to my own destruction... PLEASE!!!
I don't know where you are getting your information from, but the Bible does not attribute Hebrews to Paul. The authorship is unknown but it had to be one of the apostles or someone closely associated with one of the apostles.
And there is nothing theologically wrong with Acts. Acts is about the history of the early church. It is not an epistle which contains Church-age doctrines.
Paul did not say that the stars are of a different nature than the sun (1 Cor 15:41). He said this ---> 'There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.'
This is simply a reference to the fact that each star has its own glory. Some stars shine more brightly than others. The sun, from our perspective shines more brightly than the other stars. In that verse and in the surrounding passage the subject is resurrection. Paul compared the differences between the glory and splendor of earthly bodies and heavenly bodies (v.40) to the difference between a natural body and a resurrected body. In Daniel 12:3 resurrected saints are compared to stars.
If you think that grace leads people in the wrong direction than that suggests legalistic tendencies.
And no, there are no contradictions in the conversion process described in Acts. But I'll get into that in another post. I'm too tired to continue right now.
And Paul did in fact write the books that are attributed to him.
Look up the phrase "Paul to the Hebrews" and you will get 477,000 results mentioning "The Epistle of St. Paul to the Hebrews." My question is...which Bibles actually DON'T claim that he wrote it?
The part in ACTS that is theologically wrong is the part where a Jewish priest who believed in Christ is overcome by a demon, and the demon says "Paul I know...and Jesus I know...but who are ye?" and then the demon completely overcomes and harms this man...well, this goes directly against the theology of Christ, who said that we would have power over "all evil spirits" and to rejoice, because those whose names are written in heaven (who love and follow the Lord) will have this power. This part in Acts is meant to create fear...whereas Christ came to abolish that fear and give us all power over evil. The fact that people think you need a priest to come and exorcise an evil spirit shows the unfortunate result of this part of Acts..and following this erroneous theology, which only serves to exalt Paul to the level of Jesus, while taking away part of the gift that Jesus meant for us to have..which is to NEVER FEAR...only believe.
I don't know where you are getting your information from, but the Bible does not attribute Hebrews to Paul. The authorship is unknown but it had to be one of the apostles or someone closely associated with one of the apostles.
And there is nothing theologically wrong with Acts. Acts is about the history of the early church. It is not an epistle which contains Church-age doctrines.
Paul did not say that the stars are of a different nature than the sun (1 Cor 15:41). He said this ---> 'There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.'
This is simply a reference to the fact that each star has its own glory. Some stars shine more brightly than others. The sun, from our perspective shines more brightly than the other stars. In that verse and in the surrounding passage the subject is resurrection. Paul compared the differences between the glory and splendor of earthly bodies and heavenly bodies (v.40) to the difference between a natural body and a resurrected body. In Daniel 12:3 resurrected saints are compared to stars.
If you think that grace leads people in the wrong direction than that suggests legalistic tendencies.
And no, there are no contradictions in the conversion process described in Acts. But I'll get into that in another post. I'm too tired to continue right now.
And Paul did in fact write the books that are attributed to him.
About the stars reference...well saying that flesh vs. spirit is the same as comparing the sun to other stars doesn't make sense. You can see what he is trying to point out, however. The moon vs. sun itself would be a better example.
I didn't say "grace" itself leads people in the wrong direction. That's ridiculous. But his gospel of grace and Christ's gospel are very different in many respects...and the focus is different in each case. This is why people argue so much about "faith vs. works" when really it is both. The idea that works won't help get you into heaven is ridiculous, for as Jesus himself pointed out, God knows the hearts of men, and knows whether people do things out of genuine goodness in their hearts, or whether it's just for show. Paul acts as if works will not help you just because there are those who do "feigned good works," but that is very flawed teaching.
James had to come and point out that "faith without works is dead".
The fact is, doing good works is self-reinforcing, and the more good you do...the more good you want to do, because God rewards you karmically, and you also see all the benefit it does for so many people...and it is a wonderful spiritual experience. Thinking that it does not help your salvation is VERY DANGEROUS THEOLOGY.
And no, there are no contradictions in the conversion process described in Acts. But I'll get into that in another post. I'm too tired to continue right now.
Actually there are.
Look up the "contradictions in Acts" regarding the THREE different times the conversion account is given (the three times that Paul desrcribes what happened on the way to Damascus).
Thanks TwoWitnesses. I did edit the post a couple of times because the flow wouldn't stop...lol... so there's more.
Oh and about what you just said about Paul's conversion - yeah, did the people with Paul hear the voice or not. One passage says they heard it, and the other they didn't hear it.
So basically, you've got a guy who hates Christians and hes killing them, but realizes they're only getting stronger, and Satan goes to Paul and says, "hey if we cant beat em, we'll join em, and teach them that they are free to "do as they wish". If we can just keep them in sin and stop them from repenting, we win their soul. They'll have itching ears... they'll love it!!! It won't matter if they have the teachings of the Messiah, they'll be totally blind to it because of all the love we'll show them. Here Paul, put this on, you'll look just like a sheep."
Thanks TwoWitnesses. I did edit the post a couple of times because the flow wouldn't stop...lol... so there's more.
Oh and about what you just said about Paul's conversion - yeah, did the people with Paul hear the voice or not. One passage says they heard it, and the other they didn't hear it.
So basically, you've got a guy who hates Christians and hes killing them, but realizes they're only getting stronger, and Satan goes to Paul and says, "hey if we cant beat em, we'll join em, and teach them that they are free to "do as they wish". If we can just keep them in sin and stop them from repenting, we win their soul. They'll have itching ears... they'll love it!!! It won't matter if they have the teachings of the Messiah, they'll be totally blind to it because of all the love we'll show them. Here Paul, put this on, you'll look just like a sheep."
Exactly right O-Ducky! That is what I think too!!
And I think the reason that John the Baptist and Peter and James were killed (even possibly Jesus our Lord)...was to stop them from talking about the real truth...because the secret societies then didn't want the common man to know these things...as is still the case today.
I am looking at some more Paul writings now, and it didn't take me long to find another gem:
From 2 Corinthians 10:7 "... For even if (Q)I boast somewhat [e]further about our (R)authority, which the Lord gave for building you up and not for destroying you, I will not be put to shame, 9 [f]for I do not wish to seem as if I would terrify you by my letters. 10 For they say, “His letters are weighty and strong, but his [g]personal presence is (S)unimpressive and (T (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=2+corinthians+10 &version1=49#cen-NASB-28982T - broken link))his speech contemptible.” 11 Let such a person consider this, that what we are in word by letters when absent, such persons we are also in deed when present.
His letters were not the same as he was in person, which many people found suspicous. He defends himself by saying "Let such a person consider this, that what we are in word by letters when absent, such persons we are also in deed when present."
He obviously did not seem to be filled with inspiration or the Holy Spirit when people saw him in person...but he countered that with a claim that he acted in accordance with what he taught (Which is not hard to do...as false preachers do it all the time) and so this should prove to them that he was genuine.
I believe Peter, as well as most all the church, was decieved by Paul. Yahushua said that even the very elect could be decieved, in Matthew chapter 24. Why do I believe this?
Paul, after three years, finally goes for a visit to the disciples, and Peter tells Paul, ok, just tell the gentiles all they have to do is refrain from eating food that has been sacrificed to idols and refrain from sexual sin. What does Paul do? He tells us in 1 Corinthians chapter 8 that it's ok to eat food offered to idols. Hunh? Yahushua Himself tells us in Revelation it's not ok and it's a very serious sin.
Acts 15:20
Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from eating food offered to idols, from sexual immorality, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from consuming blood.
Acts 21:25
“As for the Gentile believers, they should do what we already told them in a letter: They should abstain from eating food offered to idols, from consuming blood or the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality.”
1 Corinthians 8:1 (Paul)
Now regarding your question about food that has been offered to idols. Yes, we know that “we all have knowledge” about this issue. But while knowledge makes us feel important, it is love that strengthens the church.
*Now, who did Yahushua say He was going to build His church with? Was it Paul or Peter? And just in case you might think Yahushua backs Paul...
Revelation 2:14
“But I have a few complaints against you. You tolerate some among you whose teaching is like that of Balaam, who showed Balak how to trip up the people of Israel. He taught them to sin by eating food offered to idols and by committing sexual sin.
Revelation 2:20
“But I have this complaint against you. You are permitting that woman—that Jezebel who calls herself a prophet—to lead my servants astray. She teaches them to commit sexual sin and to eat food offered to idols.
Now, if you continue to listen to Paul after what I just showed you, you have some serious problems.
So you see, Paul, convinces and decieves Peter and the rest of the disciples to stray from the Messiah's great commision, and then Paul doesn't even listen to Peter's advise. What is the truth? Is there more than one gospel - to the jews and to the gentiles?
18 Jesus came and told his disciples, “I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. 19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. 20 Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Pay very close attention to that Great Commission right there. Who is Yahushua speaking to? The Jews. Who are they supposed to teach too? The Gentiles. What are the gentiles supposed to do? The same exact thing as the jews.
We are to stop sinning. Get water baptized (after that, and only after that, do we get filled with the Holy Spirit and are born again). And as Yahushua taught, were supposed to obey the Ten Commandments, in which He himself magnified to the extreme.
So you mean to tell me, layman, pastor, christian, disciple of Yahushua the Messiah,... that your going to go with Paul after knowing what I've just showed you?
Did I just twist anything to my own destruction, or am I simply obeying the Messiah?
Please, show me how I'm twisting something to my own destruction... PLEASE!!!
I am 100% confident that when I go before Elohim on judgement day, He's not going to rebuke me for listening and obeying the Messiah. I believe it's Him who's revealed this to me accually, and it's a wonderfull blessing to know this.
The people who put the different books of the "Bible" together, are also the same exact ones who murdered our brothers and sisters for keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath. Think about it. Because they didn't honor the "Sun-Day" (venerable day of the sun), they were murdered and burned to death.
The "Bible" is a collection of many books and letters, which even leaves out Enoch for crying out loud. Enoch was one of the most widely read books of the church. Yahushua and all the Apostles read Enoch.
Wow, now I'm going off. But think about what I just revealed to you. It's the truth.
Revelation 2 (Yahushua's commendation)
You have examined the claims of those who say they are apostles but are not. You have discovered they are liars.
Paul did not say it was alright for everyone to eat meat sacrificed to idols because Paul knew that many had weak conciences and would be wounded if they ate such food. He knew that an idol as no power and those who are strong in faith and knowlege will not have a problem. His advice was not to eat it if it would offend a weak brother. The same is true of alcoholic drink. If a brother is offended I will not drink in front of a weak brother. Remember, Jesus turned the water into wine, not grapejuice, and thereby showed it was not sin in and of itself. It would be if you push it on others. Peter started the church but it was Paul who built upon it more than all the Apostles and gave revelation that was more comprehensive.
The main point that Peter was refering to as twisting the scripture to ones own destruction was that many thought that Paul was saying that Grace was a licence to sin by not obeying the commantments when He actually said, ROM 8:4 "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." and
ROM 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law." and ROM 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."
Where Paul says, ROM 10:4 "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." He is not saying that the law has ended but that trying to keep it without Christ is of no value if one wants to be righteous.
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