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As I recall, I directed you to the Greek. The word used in the Greek is haš·šā·mā·yim - of the heavens. The birds of the heavens. I kings 14:11 was one of the passages I listed in reply to your request for passages which speak of the different heavens. If I remember correctly, you made this reply in a post separate from the matter of Enoch and Elijah.
Why don't you simply do a search on 'how many heavens does the Bible speak of', or something similar?
I thought I cleared this up. Elijah was not taken up into the second heaven or the third heaven. He was taken up into the sky which is the first heaven. After that he would have gone into sheol. Or as some suggest, he may have simply been transported elsewhere on earth where he lived until he died.
I thought you said you were a student of Christianity. And you can't understand that Jesus Christ had to be the first member of the human race to enter into heaven? Jesus said that no one had ascended into heaven but He who descended from heaven (John 3:13). At the time He said that, it was true. Since He is now in heaven, heaven is accessable to believers. Prior to that believers who died went to Sheol. Now if you knew anything about the significance of the veil which separated the holy of holies from the holy place in the tabernacle and the temple which came later, and that it represented the real Holy of holies in the third heaven you would understand this.
I have told you twice now that Old Testament saints who died went to Sheol.
The holy of holies in the tabernacle has everything to do with it.
Isaiah did not counter and did not try to counter anything. God required animal sacrifices prior to Jesus going to the cross. The animal sacrifices which God commanded Israel to perform were a picture or type of the work of Christ on the cross when He came in the future relative to their time.
I have no interest in your so called explanation. You have shown yourself to be ignorant of doctrinal matters.
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Dude, you are so wrong on so many counts it isn't even funny. You have shown that you are the one who is ignorant.
Isaiah 1:11 "To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats"
So you are completely wrong...Isaiah did counter the concept of animal sacrifices.
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Bro...you didn't clear anything up. You make assumptions and that is all. The truth is, you back engineer the statement from Jesus based on what you think it supposedly means...and that's all you're doing, and anyone with half a brain can see it. You're just wasting my time.
The explanation about what Jesus said is that the scripture in John 3:13 means something very different than what you think. And the true interpretation of it explains a LOT OF OTHER THINGS HE SAID, but it seems you want to remain completely ignorant.
But like I said...i could show you proof of things, and you will just go on with your insults and other weird indoctrinated behavior.
I'm starting a new job Monday so I won't be online too much. Have a good one man...it's been fun. This will be my last day of posting to you.
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God was in Christ. Jesus Christ is God's revealed message to man. If you have seen me you have seen the Father(God). The jews saw flesh and blood, those who had eyes to see saw God. The Bible is not the word of God, Jesus Christ IS. I AM the Bread of Life.
Again....you're making true statements. But those statements that are true you are deriving from Scripture. You could not know of these things outside the Bible.
Even the idea of God's Spirit within us... God clearly declares in Scripture that He does this for an individual who becomes saved.
Jesus referred to the Scriptures time and time and time again. He often declared, "It is written.."
No matter how hard we might try, there is no getting around the Bible. Many here have attempted to validate their particular theology by the Scriptures, only to turn around and say the Bible is not the Word of God.
Either we can trust it or we cannot. If it is not the Word of God, I can't see the point in even bothering with it.
Again....you're making true statements. But those statements that are true you are deriving from Scripture. You could not know of these things outside the Bible.
Even the idea of God's Spirit within us... God clearly declares in Scripture that He does this for an individual who becomes saved.
Jesus referred to the Scriptures time and time and time again. He often declared, "It is written.."
No matter how hard we might try, there is no getting around the Bible. Many here have attempted to validate their particular theology by the Scriptures, only to turn around and say the Bible is not the Word of God.
Either we can trust it or we cannot. If it is not the Word of God, I can't see the point in even bothering with it.
I just wanted to chime in here real quick. Remember, that a good portion of what was written for the NT was rejected as non-canonical. So it isn't like there was ever a 100% perfect Word of God at any one given moment. Even Revelation was not accepted for a very long time...
So attempts were made to find the perfect Word. It wasn't very simple.
The first person who tried to help compile the NT was also a heretic. (Marcion).so we can see that again..maybe it wasn't that simple.
Again....you're making true statements. But those statements that are true you are deriving from Scripture. You could not know of these things outside the Bible.
Even the idea of God's Spirit within us... God clearly declares in Scripture that He does this for an individual who becomes saved.
Jesus referred to the Scriptures time and time and time again. He often declared, "It is written.."
No matter how hard we might try, there is no getting around the Bible. Many here have attempted to validate their particular theology by the Scriptures, only to turn around and say the Bible is not the Word of God.
Either we can trust it or we cannot. If it is not the Word of God, I can't see the point in even bothering with it.
We have been told a lie about what the Bible really means. Playing both sides of the war, between Protestants ("sola scriptura") and Catholics ("church authority") is what the powers that be are doing...and both aspects standing totally at odds completely miss the point. But i could tell you what is really going on and you wouldn't want to see it.
The War on Terror, War on Drugs, The Cold War...WWII (which was fake)..and this chasm in Christianity are all part of the same mystery.
By asking "why have you forsaken me" it is apparent that Jesus reallty thought God would save him from the cross since "all things are possible for God." So Jesus couldn't have really thought that his death was necessary to "save everyone" or he would not have done this.
And I can accept that Jesus didn't sin due to the above. But then, that also means that Jesus should not have called Peter "satan" when Peter wanted Jesus not to die. Peter loved Jesus. It is a perfectly natural initial reaction that ANYONE would have for a dear loved one...that comes from LOVE and not Satan. Jesus was wrong about this. You cannot have it both ways..sorry.
Didn't you say that the "hyostatic union" was going to be temporarily broken due to the cross? How does that happen? Possibly I misunderstood you.
I do understand that Jesus always wanted to do the will of the father. But saying "I CAN ONLY DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER" and then us knowing that THE FATHER'S WILL WAS TRULY FOR CHRIST TO BE CRUCIFIED...then that means that Jesus could not have even prayed against the Father's will...because being all-knowing, and in "hypostatic union" it wouldn't have been possible. When he said "why have you forsaken me" he realized that he wasn't truly in hypostatic union after all. I rest my case.
Spiritual alchemy is not new age at all. I guess you haven't learned much. It is very ancient, and at the heart of what Christ taught about denying this material world. But the worldy erroneous Christianity is what you follow.
You also never answered my question about if Jesus was all-knowing, why he had to call a Gentile woman a dog, and refuse her repeatedly, before helping her.
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Because Christ had the twofold nature of flesh and Spirit, He had to deny self [flesh] to retain the nature of God's Charactor the same as He asks of us. Christ was not a masicist because His flesh had an instinctual mind of it's own given by God as we all do to escape needless suffering. Only for a greater cause did the Son agree to the cross and thus proving His Character to the very end. Because of the extreme sufferings that the cross meant, He needed to pray three seperate times to overcome the will of the flesh and gain courage and thereby set the example that we all need to learn, to pray much.
The cross was the only way for God to show the world how evil it is, but how good God is to forgive and save inspite of it's evils. But for that, the only other way for Christ to escape the cross would be perhaps to destoy the world and started over.
He, however had the perfect balance between what is lawfull to allow the flesh to do and what the charactor of God requires. Going to the cross was an extreme demand on Christ's natural instincts of flesh, instincts that we all have. But because He was in perfect balance, He prayed that Gods will supperseed the will of His flesh and push back the attacks of the Devil. He could not have failed because He was perfect and was only modeling what we need to do if we want eventual success to walk with God. We unlike Him will fail often but if we persist we will grow in Grace and in the will of God.
We have all been "dogs" and "pigs" at times even as Jesus said, "cast not your pearls before the swine." She realized the truth about herself but insisted on receiveing nevertheless. The lesson here is that those who seek with all the heart will receive regardless of what you have been. He was seeking to draw out her faith as only He knows how to do as He is God and knows how the heart of all tick. Rejoice!
Peter was being used by Satan and using Peters weakness of not understanding that Christ must go to the cross. Jesus was rebuking the Devil and at the same time giving Peter a lesson.
Again....you're making true statements. But those statements that are true you are deriving from Scripture. You could not know of these things outside the Bible.
Even the idea of God's Spirit within us... God clearly declares in Scripture that He does this for an individual who becomes saved.
Jesus referred to the Scriptures time and time and time again. He often declared, "It is written.."
No matter how hard we might try, there is no getting around the Bible. Many here have attempted to validate their particular theology by the Scriptures, only to turn around and say the Bible is not the Word of God.
Either we can trust it or we cannot. If it is not the Word of God, I can't see the point in even bothering with it.
I disagree JAA2310, the spirit of truth is more than able to teach us. Let's take these 2 scriptures for example....Tell me whether these 2 scriptures were true scriptures were reality before they were written in letter form. Are you saying the believer was not aware of this before it was written in your bible ?.
As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.
We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
I just wanted to chime in here real quick. Remember, that a good portion of what was written for the NT was rejected as non-canonical. So it isn't like there was ever a 100% perfect Word of God at any one given moment. Even Revelation was not accepted for a very long time...
So attempts were made to find the perfect Word. It wasn't very simple.
The first person who tried to help compile the NT was also a heretic. (Marcion).so we can see that again..maybe it wasn't that simple.
Understood. But it is God's purpose that His Word would stand. I have every reason to believe that we are on solid ground with the Bible.
Please keep in mind, there is often an appeal by UR believers to validate their position from Scripture.
God was in Christ. Jesus Christ is God's revealed message to man. If you have seen me you have seen the Father(God). The jews saw flesh and blood, those who had eyes to see saw God. The Bible is not the word of God, Jesus Christ IS. I AM the Bread of Life.
Jesus Christ is God. The bible by its own testimony is the word of God. This is not a difficult concept to understand. The Bible is God's message in writing to man. Since it is God's communicated message to man, it is the word of God. God's word is both spoken and written. God set His message, His word in writing where it is permanently recorded for man.
'All scripture is God-breathed...' (2 Tim 3:16)
The word God-breathed is theopneustos
Theopneustos - 'God- breathed' entails the principle of inspiration and involves both inhale and exhale. In the inhale, God the Holy Spirit communicated to the human authors, God's complete and coherent message. In the exhale, the human writers of Scripture wrote using their vocabulary, their personal feelings, their literary style, and their personality, so that God's word - His message was permanently recorded.
2 Peter 1:20 'But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 21] for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the holy Spirit spoke from God.
John 17:8 (Jesus speaking) 'for the words which Thou gavest Me I have given to them; and they received them,
In John 17:8 Jesus Christ (the Word of God) says that He gave the Father's words to His disciples. Those words were also recorded in writing so that we today also have them. The Bible is the word of God.
1 Thess 2:13 'And for this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received from us the word of God's message, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what is really is, the word of
God...'
Paul, Silvanus and Timothy gave God's message to the Thessalonians and they received it as the word of God. Do you understand this? God's message to the apostles was communicated to the Thessalonians and was called the word of God. Again, God's word can be spoken, and it can be in writing. The Bible is the word of God because it contains the recorded message of God to man.
The Bible is also called the word of truth.
2 Tim 2:15 'Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth.
Paul was exhorting Timothy to do his best in handling the word of truth (Eph 1:13; Col 1:5; James 1:18) which for Timothy included both the Old Testament Scripture and what he had heard orally from Paul.
God is truth. Jesus Christ is God. Jesus Christ is truth. The Bible is God's message to man recorded in writing. The Bible is the Word of God - the Word of truth.
Last edited by Michael Way; 10-01-2011 at 03:27 PM..
We have been told a lie about what the Bible really means. Playing both sides of the war, between Protestants ("sola scriptura") and Catholics ("church authority") is what the powers that be are doing...and both aspects standing totally at odds completely miss the point. But i could tell you what is really going on and you wouldn't want to see it.
The War on Terror, War on Drugs, The Cold War...WWII (which was fake)..and this chasm in Christianity are all part of the same mystery.
I can agree on the latter point only with regard to the growing apostasy that we can expect before the end comes.
Churches that used to adhere to the authority of Scripture have now begun to re-write the rules (on things like abortion, divorce....).
We are pretty much warned in a passage like 2 Timothy 4:3-4:
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
So, I agree that we have something pretty terrible to look forward to in terms of professing Christianity.
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