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Jesus is called the Word of God because He is the revealed Person of the Godhead. The Bible is called the Word of God because it is God's revealed message to man.
God was in Christ. Jesus Christ is God's revealed message to man. If you have seen me you have seen the Father(God). The jews saw flesh and blood, those who had eyes to see saw God. The Bible is not the word of God, Jesus Christ IS. I AM the Bread of Life.
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago, whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows, such a man was caught up to the third heaven.
And I know how such a man, whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows, was caught up into Paradise, and heard inexpressible words, which a man is
not permitted to speak.
The Revelation of Christ as portrayed by John, prior to 70 A.D. and Paul's own death.
Obviously we disagree on what Truth IS. Jesus Christ said He is THE TRUTH. Truth is the reality of who God IS. When in reality we love our neighbor as ourselves, we are the reality of that Truth,when we bless instead of cursing we are the reality of that truth. This is what Jesus meant when he said he was seeking worshippers that worship him in Spirit and Truth, and what the scripture means when it says "grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ. We have no truth unless we are the reality of it.
Correct, again. But these, again, are truths first found in the Scriptures.
We would know nothing of loving our neighbor as ourselves, or worshipping God in spirit and in truth unless we were taught these things from the Scriptures. Otherwise we could never promote these things. We would never know about them.
God works through His Word to draw sinners to Christ. Jesus prayed to the Father, "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth".
The idea of referring to the Bible as "the letter" is also an issue. The Bible uses the term "the letter" to speak about the law.
2 Cor 3:5,6 is in the Bible, but clearly distinguihes between "the letter" and "the spirit":
5 "Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
So, the Bible does properly instruct us in the things of God. It has all we need to know about our need of salvation, and how that salvation has been provided, and how we can live in the will of God.
I love how Paul tells Timothy that "from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus". (2 Tim 3:15).
And this verse is followed by that well-known v.16:
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness",
(from New International Version)
Jesus never had any intention of not fulfilling the Father's will.
Mark 14:35 And He went a little beyond them, and fell to the ground and began to pray that if it were possible, the hour might pass Him by. 36]'And He was saying, ''Abba! Father! All things are possible for thee; remove this cup from Me; yet not what I will, but what Thou wilt.''
And again, I will paraphrase a portion of the Bible Knowledge Commentary concerning Mark 14:35.
Jesus made a request that if it were possible, that the hour might pass from Him. The word 'if' in verse 35 is in the first class condition which means that it was possible if the Father was willing to grant His request. The only issue was if it was God the Father's will to grant His request ---Luke 22:42 ''Father if Thou art willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Thine be done.''
Jesus' main concern was that in drinking the cup He must drink, His relationship with the Father would be disrupted --Mark 15:34 '...''My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?''
Jesus' human will was distinct from the Father's will but was never in opposition to it. He acknowledged that the answer to His request was in accordance to the Father's will, rather than His own. He was resolute in submitting to the Father's will for Him to go to the cross, despite His deep distress.
No, you do not understand the hypostatic union. Once Jesus came into the world through the virgin birth, He was in permanent hypostatic union. The two natures --His deity and His humanity were and are united in one Person without any mixing of the attributes of each nature. Jesus Christ is the unique Person of the universe.
Jesus did not sin. Had Jesus sinned in any way at any time during His life, He would not have been qualified to go to the cross. Jesus was never in opposition to the Father's will. He simply prayed that if the cup He was to drink could pass away, that it be so. But He knew that it couldn't and He said to the Father 'not My will, but Your will be done.'
Again, ANY sin committed by Jesus would have disqualified Him from going to the cross and dying for the sins of the world.
Alchemichal path of transformation of the soul? It seems you are into some kind of New Age nonsense.
Jesus was not in error in praying to the Father. And comparing prayer to thinking about adultery is absurd.
The full extent of what Jesus prayed is not recorded. He most likely prayed to be strengthened since an angel from heaven appeared to Him to strengthen Him.
No, it was not way too long after the fact. It was still within the lifetime of eyewitnesses of Jesus. You discount the fact that John wrote under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit. He wrote His gospel account when it was time to do so.
By asking "why have you forsaken me" it is apparent that Jesus reallty thought God would save him from the cross since "all things are possible for God." So Jesus couldn't have really thought that his death was necessary to "save everyone" or he would not have done this.
And I can accept that Jesus didn't sin due to the above. But then, that also means that Jesus should not have called Peter "satan" when Peter wanted Jesus not to die. Peter loved Jesus. It is a perfectly natural initial reaction that ANYONE would have for a dear loved one...that comes from LOVE and not Satan. Jesus was wrong about this. You cannot have it both ways..sorry.
Didn't you say that the "hyostatic union" was going to be temporarily broken due to the cross? How does that happen? Possibly I misunderstood you.
I do understand that Jesus always wanted to do the will of the father. But saying "I CAN ONLY DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER" and then us knowing that THE FATHER'S WILL WAS TRULY FOR CHRIST TO BE CRUCIFIED...then that means that Jesus could not have even prayed against the Father's will...because being all-knowing, and in "hypostatic union" it wouldn't have been possible. When he said "why have you forsaken me" he realized that he wasn't truly in hypostatic union after all. I rest my case.
Spiritual alchemy is not new age at all. I guess you haven't learned much. It is very ancient, and at the heart of what Christ taught about denying this material world. But the worldy erroneous Christianity is what you follow.
You also never answered my question about if Jesus was all-knowing, why he had to call a Gentile woman a dog, and refuse her repeatedly, before helping her.
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Correct, again. But these, again, are truths first found in the Scriptures.
We would know nothing of loving our neighbor as ourselves, or worshipping God in spirit and in truth unless we were taught these things from the Scriptures. Otherwise we could never promote these things. We would never know about them.
God works through His Word to draw sinners to Christ. Jesus prayed to the Father, "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth".
The idea of referring to the Bible as "the letter" is also an issue. The Bible uses the term "the letter" to speak about the law.
2 Cor 3:5,6 is in the Bible, but clearly distinguihes between "the letter" and "the spirit":
5 "Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
So, the Bible does properly instruct us in the things of God. It has all we need to know about our need of salvation, and how that salvation has been provided, and how we can live in the will of God.
I love how Paul tells Timothy that "from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus". (2 Tim 3:15).
And this verse is followed by that well-known v.16:
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness",
(from New International Version)
Here you make it clear, by being in agreement with a poster who calls Paul a deceiver, that you too think that Paul was a false apostle. I have little patience with people who claim to be believers but who attack the word of God.
As for O-Ducky, as I recall, I explained his error concerning food being offered to idols after he made an issue out of it some time back, and he disappeared from the forum for a while. Now he's back spewing the same nonsense.
You do realize that there is a Gospel and also Hebrews that each make mention of Enoch...yet Enoch's book was excluded (because of an agenda) and also that Revelation was initially rejected for a long time an not seen as divinely inspired? So it is certainly possible that people have made mistakes, while they thought they were rightly inspired. And Christianity is very much in conflict and divided...and a lot of the "mainstream ideas" out there are very erroneous. I know why. It's because there is a problem with some of the scriptures. It has caused many many arguments that would not have happened. Everyone claims they have the spirit...and then they all argue...closed mindedly.
The Holy Spirit..with an open mind..instead of believing what other people feed to you is all we can really trust to reveal and weed out all the contradictions, and the lies that exist. If Christianity were not divided...I may have not felt the need to look into all this.
But I could prove to you a million times what is wrong with Paul's theology
and you would come back with the same indoctrinated answers, flawed logic, and no way to refute the claims I make. I can already see how closed minded you are...because several times I have presented another explanation for the other argument we were having that would solve the seeming contradiction and you are not the slightest bit interested. I myself have no patience for that kind of thing.
I have supernatural revelations constantly about things going on in my life...that i couldn't have otherwise known if it weren't for God the Father's help (who I pray to constantly). So I do not have to worry...because I know the true path to salvation. And I know I do not have to follow Paul..but what Christ taught. Paul's books came first. And the reason the Gospels were written AFTERWARD was to correct the errors in Paul's theology and the damage he was doing. That is why the true Gospels and his teachings differ in so many ways. Don't make excuses for Paul. Follow what Jesus taught.
You sound more like a liberal critic of the school of higher criticism than you do a believer.
I have looked into it, and I am telling you that the word of God has been preserved. There are many thousands of manuscript copies, in various stages of completion. Many are mere fragments. But it is that abundance of copies which allows the science of Textual Criticism to prove that the Bible has been faithfully preserved. That does not mean that there are not errors in the manuscript copies (most are minor). And it does not mean that there are no variations in the manuscripts. But it is a comparison of the many manuscript copies which establish the reliability of the Bible. No error in the manuscript copies change any point of doctrine. And no insertions such as the Johannine Comma are in opposition to what the Bible teaches.
God's message to man has been faithfully preserved.
I understand what you are saying. I myself think that they have been fairly well preserved...but not perfectly.
There have been many passages and parts added that were not in the earliest manuscripts.
But I don't think this is so much of an issue as other things we are discussing.
Correct, again. But these, again, are truths first found in the Scriptures.
We would know nothing of loving our neighbor as ourselves, or worshipping God in spirit and in truth unless we were taught these things from the Scriptures. Otherwise we could never promote these things. We would never know about them.
God works through His Word to draw sinners to Christ. Jesus prayed to the Father, "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth".
The idea of referring to the Bible as "the letter" is also an issue. The Bible uses the term "the letter" to speak about the law.
2 Cor 3:5,6 is in the Bible, but clearly distinguihes between "the letter" and "the spirit":
5 "Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
So, the Bible does properly instruct us in the things of God. It has all we need to know about our need of salvation, and how that salvation has been provided, and how we can live in the will of God.
I love how Paul tells Timothy that "from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus". (2 Tim 3:15).
And this verse is followed by that well-known v.16:
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness",
(from New International Version)
God bless.
JAA2310
The scriptures testify of who Christ IS(Jesus' own words). The scripture also say "Your word is a lamp unto my feet", in John 1 it says in Him (the word of God) was life and the life was the Light to all men.
The scripture also says "He that has the son has life" ,where is that Life ?, is it inside of us or outside of us ?, if it's inside of us then it's that Life that is teaching us and leading us.
As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.
If this following scripture said we have received a bible i would be in full agreement with you but it doesn't, it says we have received his Spirit.
We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
If we cannot trust God within to teach us, then our faith is dead. This is how Abraham initially heard God and acted by faith on what he heard.
Obviously we disagree on what Truth IS. Jesus Christ said He is THE TRUTH. Truth is the reality of who God IS. When in reality we love our neighbor as ourselves, we are the reality of that Truth,when we bless instead of cursing we are the reality of that truth. This is what Jesus meant when he said he was seeking worshippers that worship him in Spirit and Truth, and what the scripture means when it says "grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ. We have no truth unless we are the reality of it.
What you say here is true and now you are making more sense. I agree that the written word, in and of itself, is only the letter of the Law. Truth is the very essence of Christ and the Power behind the written Law and all Scripture. Unfortunately those without the Power of a New Birth [the very nature of Christ] can not keep the law because they are flesh in nature and not Spiritual in Christ. Yes scripture refers to the written word as Law but and the Living word as Truth so as to make that important distinction between those who only read it and those who have it engrafted into to there hearts to keep it.
IS 8:16 "Bind up the Testimony, seal the Law [in the heart] among My disciples.
IS 8:20 To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
The Testimony of Christ is that the written word is to be fullfilled in us by the Spirit. Some preach only one thing or the other but do not realize that the mission of Christ was not to do away with the Law [only the temporary ordinances] but to engraft the Law it into the heart by the Spirit.
"Birds of the field"...just meant birds of the field literally. It says "eat." Just because birds fly in the sky does not mean it is talking about heaven. That's ridiculous. You are trying to creatively read into this something that it never meant...and then apply it to two of God's chosen...that it NEVER HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH. That whole passage is talking about something else, and if you look at the previous verse, and take the two together in context..you can see it is talking about the death of evil people...not Enoch or Elijah. It's talking about evil people from the House of Jerobam...that will literally die either in the field or city, and get eaten by animals. Nice try though!
As I recall, I directed you to the Greek. The word used in the Greek is haš·šā·mā·yim - of the heavens. The birds of the heavens. I kings 14:11 was one of the passages I listed in reply to your request for passages which speak of the different heavens. If I remember correctly, you made this reply in a post separate from the matter of Enoch and Elijah.
Why don't you simply do a search on 'how many heavens does the Bible speak of', or something similar?
Quote:
1 Kings 14:10-11
10Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel, and will take away the remnant of the house of Jeroboam, as a man taketh away dung, till it be all gone.
11Him that dieth of Jeroboam in the city shall the dogs eat; and him that dieth in the field shall the fowls of the air eat: for the LORD hath spoken it.
Saying that Elijah...(as great as he was, that the Lord says He will send him again before the Great and Terrible Day...is just floating around in the sky in the void of space, is also ridiculous.
I thought I cleared this up. Elijah was not taken up into the second heaven or the third heaven. He was taken up into the sky which is the first heaven. After that he would have gone into sheol. Or as some suggest, he may have simply been transported elsewhere on earth where he lived until he died.
Quote:
Paul's mention of the third heaven is interesting...and actually i don't doubt there are many levels TO THE ACTUAL HEAVEN...WHERE THERE ARE MANY LEVELS...ALL SPIRITUAL...but you have failed to point out where it says Elijah went to a different heaven than Jesus...and just keep repeating how "before Jesus went to the cross..." without any scriptural backup. The truth is...there is nothing in the Bible that proves that Elijah and Jesus ascended to different places. I rest my case.
I thought you said you were a student of Christianity. And you can't understand that Jesus Christ had to be the first member of the human race to enter into heaven? Jesus said that no one had ascended into heaven but He who descended from heaven (John 3:13). At the time He said that, it was true. Since He is now in heaven, heaven is accessable to believers. Prior to that believers who died went to Sheol. Now if you knew anything about the significance of the veil which separated the holy of holies from the holy place in the tabernacle and the temple which came later, and that it represented the real Holy of holies in the third heaven you would understand this.
Quote:
Regarding Enoch, in Hebrews 11:5 it reads "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."
I believe "translated" means into the Spirit..and if he was taken...um, doesn't that mean that he went to be with God. You say he was taken...uh...where..to the void of space..or with God? Which do you think it would be?
I have told you twice now that Old Testament saints who died went to Sheol.
Quote:
Mentioning the tabernacle had nothing to do with it. God apparently wanted animal blood sacrifices from Abraham...but Isaiah counters this (long before Christ) and says that animal's blood does not please God.
The holy of holies in the tabernacle has everything to do with it.
Isaiah did not counter and did not try to counter anything. God required animal sacrifices prior to Jesus going to the cross. The animal sacrifices which God commanded Israel to perform were a picture or type of the work of Christ on the cross when He came in the future relative to their time.
Quote:
And i keep telling you I have a way to make it not a contradiction that Christ says this...and you seem to have no interest in knowing what that is (unless you've mentioned it in later posts that I have not read). So it seems you just want to defend a defenseless position. It doesn't seem like you care too much about Truth...only defending the indoctrination. I could prove it incorrect a million times, and I suspect you would not budge. Though...in contrast, if you could actually prove anything to me with truth and logic, I will accept it.
I have no interest in your so called explanation. You have shown yourself to be ignorant of doctrinal matters.
As I have said, though you claim to be a believer, you sound more like a skeptic who adheres to the claims of higher critcism.
The very fact that you view Paul as a false apostle in agreement with that other poster, and that you think God unable to preserve His word, shows your position regarding Christianity and concerning God.
Again, you can simply be dismissed as one who claims to be a believer but who attacks the word of God. I don't think there is any reason to spend any more time on you.
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