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That is a good question. However most ppl give the answer they've been taught. [Just as I would have myself some time ago]. They will tell you that both Enoch, Elijah and believers when they die, all went/go to heaven.
I will get back to Enoch and Elijah in a minute, but first let's look at what Christ Himself taught on this subject.
Did He teach we go to heaven upon death? No. Read all 4 gospels and see if He ever said either of these things:
1.) "When you die you go to heaven."
2.) "I am returning to take you to heaven."
The only time He even remotely suggested #1 is in John 14. However, again, this is misunderstood. Why do I say that? Well let's look at the passages:
2 In my Father’s *house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
* "house are many mansions." We've been taught this means we go to 'heaven' when we die. But there's a problem here. The word house does not mean 'heaven.' Matter of fact the word heaven isn't even in the definition of the word house.
In this context it means: household/family. And the word mansions doesn't mean 'a big house' it means, dwelling places. So this verse is actually saying, 'in my Father's household/family are many dwelling places.' And what does He tell us in vs. 16,17?
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
So we are the mansions, the dwelling places to be filled with the Holy Spirit.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also
Now if you just read v. 3 by itself it again sound as if Christ is going to heaven to make a 'mansion' for us, but is that really what He's saying? No. Note He says, " I will come again." Has that happened yet? No.
He has only, so far, come one time. Obviously He comes again at the 7th trump to receive His ppl to Himself, to always be with Him.
So what did Christ teach? As I stated above I use to think He taught we go to heaven upon death also, but one day I was reading/studying the chapter 6 of the book of John, and I read this:
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
So I turned to John 11 to see what He told Martha when her brother died:
21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day
Now back to Enoch/Elijah. Again we were taught God came and took both of them to heaven. But is that actually what the Scriptures say? No.
If you read the whole story [too long to post in this reply] you will see that God simply removed Elijah from one place to another. And this passage shows this is true:
2 Chron. 21:12 ¶ And there came a writing to him [king Jehoram]from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah.
Then factor these things in:
John 3:13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
Acts 2:34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, till I make Your enemies Your footstool.
And Heb. 11 the 'hall of faith:'
Heb. 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Then it mentions Noah, Abraham, Sarah, and Jacob.
Then what does v. 13 tell us about these ppl beginning with Enoch?
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb. 11:32 ¶ And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
Elijah was a prophet.
I hope that helps?
Your post is AWESOME and full of wisdom...unfortunately, many will reject it.
Concerning Enoch and Elijah, the writer of Hebrews had this to say:
Heb 11:13 In faith died all these, not being requited with the promises,
but perceiving them ahead and saluting them, and avowing that they
are strangers and expatriates on the earth. "
The theif on the cross did not go to paradise the day he died and neither did Jesus. Jesus went to the tomb and for three days was DEAD in the tomb. He was not off somewhere in paradise playing checkers with the thief.
Actually Jesus did not stay in the tomb. He went to release the prisoners in Satans realm.
The thief was in Paradise that hour. Jesus didn't lie to him.
Jesus spoke of sleep for those that died and were forgiven. Jesus spoke of death for those that had not received His promise.
Jesus wants us all to overcome, as he overcame. Where death backs down.
That is His teachings of life eternal... without end... Transfiguration/Quickening etc....
Actually Jesus did not stay in the tomb. He went to release the prisoners in Satans realm.
The thief was in Paradise that hour. Jesus didn't lie to him....
Indeed. He decended to hades and released the believers from there and they went to heaven. The thief from the cross went with them just like Jesus had promised. Unbelievers on the other side of hades are still there today, and new ones are being added every day, but when a believer dies today he/she goes directly to heaven, like Stephen did when they stoned Him.
Concerning Enoch and Elijah, the writer of Hebrews had this to say:
Heb 11:13 In faith died all these, not being requited with the promises,
but perceiving them ahead and saluting them, and avowing that they
are strangers and expatriates on the earth. "
The theif on the cross did not go to paradise the day he died and neither did Jesus. Jesus went to the tomb and for three days was DEAD in the tomb. He was not off somewhere in paradise playing checkers with the thief.
Yes, and not only that the word Paradise does not mean 'heaven.' Ppl just take what they've been taught as the gospel truth never checking things out for themselves.
Ecc.2:5 I made me gardens and orchards, [pardec=paradise] and I planted trees in them of all kind of fruits:
Lu 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Re 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Paradise is not heaven but the same 'place' mentioned in Rev.2:7; 22:1,2 which will be a literal future "paradise" on the earth after Christ returns and cleanses the earth with fire, etc etc.
ETA: paradise; paradeisos par-ad'-i-sos of Oriental origin (compare Hebrew pardec); a park, i.e. (specially), an Eden (place of future happiness, "paradise"):--paradise.
Last edited by mshipmate; 11-21-2011 at 10:34 AM..
Indeed. He decended to hades and released the believers from there and they went to heaven. The thief from the cross went with them just like Jesus had promised. Unbelievers on the other side of hades are still there today, and new ones are being added every day, but when a believer dies today he/she goes directly to heaven, like Stephen did when they stoned Him.
Not many believe as Stephen. God and Jesus came for him at his Martyrdom.
He testified of this for the Glory of God.
Most believers die in their sins and have a low station in heaven.
Satan has lost all sinners. That is the gift of God. It does not mean that all that call themselves Christians ascend to the Kingdom of God.
Not many believe as Stephen. God and Jesus came for him at his Martyrdom.
He testified of this for the Glory of God.
Most believers die in their sins and have a low station in heaven.
Satan has lost all sinners. That is the gift of God. It does not mean that all that call themselves Christians ascend to the Kingdom of God.
There are degrees of glory in Heaven.
I agree that Stephen's rewards will be greater than most other servants of God.
Other comments:
- Kingdom of God is not synonymous with heaven. KOG is already here amongst us, and available to everyone who wants it. Whe you trust Jesus with your life you enter KOG, and KOG enters you.
- Satan has not lost all sinners, as the Bible clearly teaches those whose name it not found in the book of life will join Satan in LOF.
Indeed. He decended to hades and released the believers from there and they went to heaven. The thief from the cross went with them just like Jesus had promised. Unbelievers on the other side of hades are still there today, and new ones are being added every day, but when a believer dies today he/she goes directly to heaven, like Stephen did when they stoned Him.
First Christ did not go to a place called hades. He said Himself He would be in the grave [just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale] for 3 days and three nights.
The Greeks put a 'new' definiton on the word hades as the place of the dead or the unseen world. So the word hades has come down to us laden with centuries of development, in which it has acquired new senses, meanings and usage.
This however is not the true meaning of the word. How do we know this? First let's look at the how the Author of the Scriptures uses the word:
Acts 2:27,31
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, [hades] neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, [hades] neither his flesh did see corruption.
This is the equivelant of sheol [grave] of the OT:
Psa. 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; [sheol] neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.ption.
So since the Scriptures declare sheol/hades means the grave that is the defintion we should apply to the 2 words also.
Note something else here:
Joh 11:17 Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the *grave four days already.
* "grave" the word for grave here is mnemeion because it was a cave/ tomb.
But remembering that Christ told His disciples that Lasarus "slept," and that He was going to raise him from the dead. Notice Lazarus is still in the tomb after 4 days [not in heaven] when Christ calls him to come forth.
Also note 1 Corin. 15:
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, [hades] where is thy victory?
First Christ did not go to a place called hades. He said Himself He would be in the grave [just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale] for 3 days and three nights.
The Greeks put a 'new' definiton on the word hades as the place of the dead or the unseen world. So the word hades has come down to us laden with centuries of development, in which it has acquired new senses, meanings and usage.
This however is not the true meaning of the word. How do we know this? First let's look at the how the Author of the Scriptures uses the word:
Acts 2:27,31
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, [hades] neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, [hades] neither his flesh did see corruption.
This is the equivelant of sheol [grave] of the OT:
Psa. 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; [sheol] neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.ption.
So since the Scriptures declare sheol/hades means the grave that is the defintion we should apply to the 2 words also.
Note something else here:
Joh 11:17 Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the *grave four days already.
* "grave" the word for grave here is mnemeion because it was a cave/ tomb.
But remembering that Christ told His disciples that Lasarus "slept," and that He was going to raise him from the dead. Notice Lazarus is still in the tomb after 4 days [not in heaven] when Christ calls him to come forth.
Also note 1 Corin. 15:
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, [hades] where is thy victory?
His body was placed in a a tomb, but He went to hades in Spirit. He made a proclamation to the spirits, and then led the believers out.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
Eph 4:8 Therefore it says,
“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”
9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? He who descended is the one who also ascended far ...
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