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I know that many Churches "recommend it as an outward expression of faith," but where does the Bible say this. Throughout the New Testament, baptism is not described as a recommendation but a commandment.
Well, see... stick around long enough and you'll end up agreeing with pretty much everybody here on one thing or another.
It doesn't say that specifically, any more than it specifically says baptism should be performed for babies. What it does say is that those who are baptized should first of all be believers in Christ and that they should have recognized and repented of their sins. It would stand to reason that infants are not capable of either believing in Christ or repenting of their sins.
So, why not a child say 7-1/2 years old? Why must Mormons be 8 years old? Your religion specifically picked the age of 8.
IMHO putting a specific "age" or "age of accountability" on baptism is not Biblical, of which the Mormon religion and the Church of Christ denomination teach.
Yes because catholics are not baptized. They are sprinkled as infants. Infants are not capable of believing, and Jesus said, "He who BELIEVES and is baptized will be saved." So the person's baptism would be a first.
Katie
Funny, that biblical quote doesn't say that it has to happen at the same time. But the Bible does say that whole families were baptized.
Here are a few biblical verses that are pertinent:
Luke 18:16-17
16 But Jesus called them to him, saying, "Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God. 17 Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it."
Acts 2:38-39
38 And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him."
(For you baptized by the Holy Spirit only folks, this verse states that you should be baptized by water AND THEN you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. So considering these Bible passages, some of the comments on this thread are simply unbiblical.)
Or how 'bout:
"And a certain woman named Lydia...did hear: whose heart the Lord opened to attend to those things which were said by Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us..." (Acts 16,14);
"And he (the jailer), taking them the same hour of the night, washed their stripes, and himself was baptized, and all his house immediately" Acts 16, 33);
"I baptized also the household of Stephanus" (1 Cor. 1,16).
Maybe you should reconsider your position on infant baptism.
I know that many Churches "recommend it as an outward expression of faith," but where does the Bible say this. Throughout the New Testament, baptism is not described as a recommendation but a commandment.
1 Cor 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel
So, why not a child say 7-1/2 years old? Why must Mormons be 8 years old? Your religion specifically picked the age of 8.
Actually, it wasn't as arbitrary as you make it sound. We believe in continuing revelation, as you know, and we believe this is the age God revealed as being the age by which a child who has normal mental capabilities should be able to discern between right and wrong and understand the basics of why he is being baptized.
Quote:
IMHO putting a specific "age" or "age of accountability" on baptism is not Biblical, of which the Mormon religion and the Church of Christ denomination teach.
I believe that the idea that something cannot possibly be true unless it is specifically spelled out in the Bible is the real problem.
1 Cor 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel
You lost me, Finn. Certain individuals were called to preach the gospel; others were called to baptize by water; others were called to confer the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. This verse certainly doesn't say anything at all to imply that baptism is merely a recommendation.
(For you baptized by the Holy Spirit only folks, this verse states that you should be baptized by water AND THEN you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
I can go along with you on that.
Quote:
"I baptized also the household of Stephanus" (1 Cor. 1,16).
Maybe you should reconsider your position on infant baptism.
How old were the individuals in Stephanus' household? You're assuming there were babies, but there is absolutely no reason to believe there were.
You lost me, Finn. Certain individuals were called to preach the gospel; others were called to baptize by water; others were called to confer the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. This verse certainly doesn't say anything at all to imply that baptism is merely a recommendation.
The only person called to baptize by water was John the Baptist.
John 1:33 -"I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, `He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'
Acts 1:5 - for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
Funny, that biblical quote doesn't say that it has to happen at the same time. But the Bible does say that whole families were baptized.
Here are a few biblical verses that are pertinent:
Luke 18:16-17
16 But Jesus called them to him, saying, "Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God. 17 Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it."
Acts 2:38-39
38 And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him."
(For you baptized by the Holy Spirit only folks, this verse states that you should be baptized by water AND THEN you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. So considering these Bible passages, some of the comments on this thread are simply unbiblical.)
Or how 'bout:
"And a certain woman named Lydia...did hear: whose heart the Lord opened to attend to those things which were said by Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us..." (Acts 16,14);
"And he (the jailer), taking them the same hour of the night, washed their stripes, and himself was baptized, and all his house immediately" Acts 16, 33);
"I baptized also the household of Stephanus" (1 Cor. 1,16).
Maybe you should reconsider your position on infant baptism.
With a few exceptions at the beginning of the church-age, the norm is that every church-age believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit and is baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit at the moment of faith in Christ.
Notice the difference in the order of which things occurred for the Jews, the Samaritans, and the Gentiles.
1.) The Jews believed and were saved, they had to be baptized in water, and then they received the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38).
2.) The Samaritans believed and were saved, they then got baptized in water, but did not receive the Holy Spirit until Peter arrived to lay hands on them. (Acts 8:14-17).
3.) The Gentiles believed and were saved, received the Holy Spirit, and THEN got baptized in water. (Acts 10:44-48).
The reason for the differences is explained in my thread.
1 Cor 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel
Paul was the author of 1 Corinthians. Paul was not one of the original disciples so when Jesus told the disciples the following:
Matthew 28:16-20
16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."
...Paul was not there when Jesus commanded the 11 disciples to baptize and spread the Gospel. He was the 13th disciple, with Matthias replacing Judas as the 12th. So, yes, Paul was not instructed to baptize by Jesus, but merely to spread the word. Basically Paul was saying, baptizing folks was not his job. So your proof-texting does NOT say baptism isn't necessary, but rather Paul wasn't the guy that was going to do it. (Paul could be the world's first union member, Apostles Local 105. lol.)
Last edited by GoodToBeHome; 12-08-2011 at 09:56 AM..
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