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Katie, the scriptures tell us that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
1 John 4:14
"And we have behold and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world."
and again Colossians 1:
Col. 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven..."
I asked you if they were subject to death. Why do they die, even in the womb?
No, I do not believe that babies sin, but I do believe that they are subject to death, and will become sinners eventually. They are in the death state and Jesus died for them. I do not believe that babies go to hell. I do not believe in hell as is the popular belief. God bless.
If you ask me why babies physically die in the womb or in infancy, it is because we inherit physical death. I agree that babies will become sinners eventually.
You need to define what you mean by death state. If you mean they are physically dying from the moment of conception, you are correct. I agree with that.
What was the purpose of Jesus dying? He died because of sin. By taking our sins to the cross, He reconciled us to God. His blood washed our sins away. Can we agree on this?
If you ask me why babies physically die in the womb or in infancy, it is because we inherit physical death. I agree that babies will become sinners eventually.
You need to define what you mean by death state. If you mean they are physically dying from the moment of conception, you are correct. I agree with that.
Yes, that is what I mean and I believe that because of the death state they are born into, they will eventually become sinners.
Quote:
What was the purpose of Jesus dying? He died because of sin. By taking our sins to the cross, He reconciled us to God. His blood washed our sins away. Can we agree on this?
Yes, Jesus is the propiation for our sins (1 John 4:10) and He came to reconcile us to God. (Colossians 1) I believe that He came to undo what happened when Adam sinned and brought death and sin into the creation. God bless.
So why does their relationship to God need restoring? You say they have no sin.
Because they are in the death state and will eventually become sinners, due to their mortality. The creation was subjected to futility and is enslaved to corruption. (Romans 8) Are they not included in the Colossians passage and the Romans passage, Katie?
Thank you for the conversation, also, Katie. I always learn something from discussions on the forums God bless.
They are include in this passage, do you not agree, Katie? Please reread it. And here is Romans 8
"18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22" (NAS)
Are babies a part of God's creation? God bless.
Babies are part of God's creation, and so are christians. Whatever state christians are in right now, babies are also in that state.
Because they are in the death state and will eventually become sinners, due to their mortality. The creation was subjected to futility and is enslaved to corruption. (Romans 8) Are they not included in the Colossians passage and the Romans passage, Katie?
Thank you for the conversation, also, Katie. I always learn something from discussions on the forums God bless.
I still don't understand what you mean by death state.
Death state= mortality, Katie. Christians are also in the death state and this is why believers will become immortal when we are raised by the Lord. We are still subject to death and die, but Jesus has abolished death and we will one day rise. God bless.
Yes, that is what I mean and I believe that because of the death state they are born into, they will eventually become sinners.
Yes, Jesus is the propiation for our sins (1 John 4:10) and He came to reconcile us to God. (Colossians 1) I believe that He came to undo what happened when Adam sinned and brought death and sin into the creation. God bless.
Sorry, I think our posts crossed. I understand what you are saying now. When you say death state, you are referring to physical death. I agree that at some point, when a child grows up and learns right from wrong, they will sin.
This is a facinating subject, one I have spent a lot of time on. I've been doing a lot of thinking about Adam in the garden of Eden. Did God create Adam to live forever physically, or did He create him with the capability of living forever? In other words, if Adam hadn't sinned, would he have continued to live forever physically?
I think, and this is really just an opinion, that God created Adam with the capability of living forever. When Adam sinned, and ate from the tree, God cursed the earth. Adam was put out of the garden where he could have lived forever, but once out of the garden, the cursed earth could not sustain him. This is why we die. Just a thought. Maybe an all wet one, but fun to think about.
Death state= mortality, Katie. Christians are also in the death state and this is why believers will become immortal when we are raised by the Lord. We are still subject to death and die, but Jesus has abolished death and we will one day rise. God bless.
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