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Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
This verse is the supposed proof text to show that we are born with sin. But if one examines it closely, it does not say that Adam's sin was passed on. To claim that it does is a gross misrepresentation of what the scripture says.
1. SIN entered the WORLD through Adam since he was the first to sin. No one sinned before him. He, Adam, introduced sin.
2. Spiritual death spread to all men because all men (not babies) sin. SPIRITUAL DEATH (not sin) passed upon all men and why? Because all have sinned. There you have the reason! Not because Adam sinned, but because WE ALL sin. This verse DOES NOT say that sin was passed on to all men.
3. The wages of sin is spiritual death, not physical death.
4. Physical death is not the result of our sin. If it were, none of us would live past our youth, or beyond when we know right from wrong. Physical death was decreed when Adam sinned.
Katie
G1223
διά
dia
dee-ah'
A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal or occasional). In composition it retains the same general import: - after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) . . . fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, X though, through (-out), to, wherefore, with (-in). In composition it retains the same general import.
Katie, what do you think through means?...If I have a genetic disease that I got through my parents it also means that they passed on that gene to me...Just as Adam passed on the sin of disobeidience to all his descendants...There are multitudes of scholars from hundreds of years ago that understood what was written in the original languages and here you come stating that they were wrong and did not understand what they read in languages that were not totally dead at the time...
A Simple Question: Adam din't have a sinful nature. Why did he sin?
Katie
He sinned because he was made of flesh.
Remember when Eve was created from Adam and Adam stated: this is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh?
Rom 8:7-8 because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is
not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able." (8) Now those who
are in flesh are not able to please God.
God knew when He created Adam flesh that Adam would not be able to please Him.
God also knew when He gave the law in the garden that Adam would not be subject to that law and would not be able to do it. Yet God gave the law anyway so Adam would sin so mankind would exerience salvation by the Saviour.
Adam was also created SOULISH.
1Co 15:45-46 If there is a soulish body, there is a spiritual also. Thus it is written also, The first man, Adam, "became a living soul:the last Adam a vivifying Spirit." (46) But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual."
God created Adam soulish knowing full well in advance that:
1Co 2:14 Now the soulish man is not receiving those things which are of the spirit of God, for they are stupidity to him, and he is not able to know them, seeing that they are spiritually examined."
And that is why Adam sinned.
He didn't have a sinful nature. He was fleshy and soulish.
Everyone is born with death passed through into them and I hace already explained why.
It is not physical death which separates man from God. It is spiritual death. Spiritual death is a lack of relationship with God. Jesus came into the world so that because of His work on the cross those who trust in Him can have an eternal relationship with Him.
When Adam sinned he immediately lost His relationship with God. He died spiritually immediately. As a result of losing his relationship with God and acquiring a sin nature his body began to degenerate causing physical death when he was 930 years old.
Thereafter, all men being born in Adam and having inherited his sin nature are born without any relationship with God and are therefore born spiritually dead.
He sinned because he was made of flesh.
Remember when Eve was created from Adam and Adam stated: this is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh?
Rom 8:7-8 because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is
not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able." (8) Now those who
are in flesh are not able to please God.
God knew when He created Adam flesh that Adam would not be able to please Him.
God also knew when He gave the law in the garden that Adam would not be subject to that law and would not be able to do it. Yet God gave the law anyway so Adam would sin so mankind would exerience salvation by the Saviour.
Adam was also created SOULISH.
1Co 15:45-46 If there is a soulish body, there is a spiritual also. Thus it is written also, The first man, Adam, "became a living soul:the last Adam a vivifying Spirit." (46) But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual."
God created Adam soulish knowing full well in advance that:
1Co 2:14 Now the soulish man is not receiving those things which are of the spirit of God, for they are stupidity to him, and he is not able to know them, seeing that they are spiritually examined."
And that is why Adam sinned.
He didn't have a sinful nature. He was fleshy and soulish.
I agree. Adam didn't have a sinful nature and neither do we. God gave Adam and us a human nature which free will is a part of. Sin is a choice we make. It is not inherited. The scripture NEVER uses the term sinful nature. This is a man made doctrine which can be traced to the gnostics and Augustine but not Jesus and the apostles.
It is not physical death which separates man from God. It is spiritual death. Spiritual death is a lack of relationship with God. Jesus came into the world so that because of His work on the cross those who trust in Him can have an eternal relationship with Him.
When Adam sinned he immediately lost His relationship with God. He died spiritually immediately. As a result of losing his relationship with God and acquiring a sin nature his body began to degenerate causing physical death when he was 930 years old.
Thereafter, all men being born in Adam and having inherited his sin nature are born without any relationship with God and are therefore born spiritually dead.
There is no scriptural support for inheriting sinful nature any more than there is for inheriting sin itself.
You are saying man has no choice but to sin. That is not true. Jesus proved to us we have a choice.
It is not physical death which separates man from God. It is spiritual death. Spiritual death is a lack of relationship with God. Jesus came into the world so that because of His work on the cross those who trust in Him can have an eternal relationship with Him.
When Adam sinned he immediately lost His relationship with God. He died spiritually immediately. As a result of losing his relationship with God and acquiring a sin nature his body began to degenerate causing physical death when he was 930 years old.
Thereafter, all men being born in Adam and having inherited his sin nature are born without any relationship with God and are therefore born spiritually dead.
Mike, dying, the process of death is what keeps mankind from pleasing God. So does flesh and being soulish.
Adam did not immediately lose his relationship with God. As a matter of fact God continued to converse with Adam and Eve and their children.
Adam never acquired a sin nature. He already was made in such a way he had to sin. He was made flesh and soulish.
Romans 5:12 does not say mankind inherited a sin nature from Adam. It says death passed through into all mankind for for that reason, all sin. So it is not a sin nature but a dying nature which causes mankind to sin.
One can boast in making the right choice...Where does it state that Hawyaw predestined those that used their volition to respond positively?...Do you even understand what Merit is?...
Because this is somewhat off topic, I decided to answer this in a new thread.
Mike, dying, the process of death is what keeps mankind from pleasing God. So does flesh and being soulish.
Adam did not immediately lose his relationship with God. As a matter of fact God continued to converse with Adam and Eve and their children.
Adam never acquired a sin nature. He already was made in such a way he had to sin. He was made flesh and soulish.
Romans 5:12 does not say mankind inherited a sin nature from Adam. It says death passed through into all mankind for for that reason, all sin. So it is not a sin nature but a dying nature which causes mankind to sin.
No. Adam was not made in such a way that he HAD to sin. He was created perfect. God who is perfect can only create what is perfect. Adam was given volition and the opportunity to use that volition by being given a choice to obey or disobey God's command not to eat of the tree.
Adam lost his relationship with God the moment he disobeyed Him. The consequences of sin is death which refers to temporal separation from God in time and eternal separation from God in the lake of fire. It is only because God did something about Adam's fallen condition that Adam's relationship with God could be restored. Jesus Christ came to Adam in the garden after he fell in order to restore the relationship which was broken by Adam' disobedience.
Spiritual death is separation from God in time. Those who die physically without receiving Christ as Savior will be eternally separated from God which is the second death which is eternity in the lake of fire. Physical death resulted from spiritual death. Spiritual death resulted from disobeying God. Because of Adam's didobedience, all men are born into the world already spiritually dead.
You refer to Romans 5:12 and ignore Romans 5:16-21 which plainly states that Adam's disobedience resulted in man being made a sinner. ONE transgression resulted in condemnation to all men.
The many were made sinners not as a result of each man's personal sins, but because of the one transgression of Adam.
Last edited by Michael Way; 12-25-2011 at 10:49 AM..
There is no scriptural support for inheriting sinful nature any more than there is for inheriting sin itself.
You are saying man has no choice but to sin. That is not true. Jesus proved to us we have a choice.
The Scriptural support that the old sin nature is inherited is clear. You refuse to believe it because you find it offensive that a baby is born already spiritually dead.
Man sins because he is a sinner. He is a sinner because Adam's original sin is imputed to his genetically acquired old sin nature.
Romans 5:16-19 leaves no excuse for denying that. FROM ONE MAN'S TRANSGRESSION ALL WERE CONDEMNED. THROUGH ONE MAN'S DISOBEDIENCE ALL WERE MADE SINNERS. Not from their own personal sins, but through one man's disobedience.
And with that, I will spend no more time on this. Truth is truth regardless of whether you choose to believe it or not.
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