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Jesus was born just as we are without "sin nature" because there is no such thing. He was born with a free will just as we are. Jesus had a choice to sin or not sin just like we do. He chose not to.
Condemnation passes to all men (not babies) because all men choose to sin. Sin separates us from God, not sin nature.
The soul that sins dies, not the soul who inherits sin. There is no such thing as inheriting sin. No scripture ever says such a thing.
Because those babies died before reaching a point where they could understand the issue involved in salvation and would be held responsible for making a volitional decision about the Messiah, they were automatically saved.
And once again, in the absence of directly being addressed in Scripture, it is a matter of understanding that God is Perfectly fair. Since He requires a volitional choice to receive Christ as Savior, He cannot in fairness and justice send into the lake of fire those who never were ABLE to make a volitional choice in the first place. A person could live to an old age but because he never had the mental faculty to understand the issue or even to be able to conceive of the concept of God, he is therefore automatically saved. The issue in eternal salvation is your volition. If your volition cannot come into play then it would be unfair and unjust for God to sentence you to eternity in the lake of fire. God cannot be unfair to anyone.
As for our not being able to seek God, that is total hogwash. Jesus said, "Seek ye first His kingdom...," (Mt. 6:33) "For EVERYONE who asks receives, and he who seeks finds..." (Mt. 7:8)
Everyone has the ability to seek God. Some choose to and others do not.
My God doesn't turn any away who truly seek him, and He sure would never hold a baby accountable for a sin they never committed.
Katie
Where does it state that everyone has the ability outside of the grace of Hawyaw?...Just because Jeshua said those things does not mean that they are able to do those things...Scripture states that EVERYONE is condemned because of Adam...Condemned to what?...Spin this one if you will....
Mike, I agree with most of what you say except I don't believe we are born with a sinful nature and therefore spiritually dead. Sin is the only thing that can separate us from God. I used to believe like you, but since reading and studying the scriptures in depth, I realize that doctrine is incorrect. Where in scripture does it say we are born with a sinful nature? I think we are born into a sinful environment, but we are inherently good at birth. We are created in God's image. Jesus compared children to the inhabitants of heaven. Why would Jesus tell. us to become like little children if children have a sinful nature? That makes no sense.
Katie
Jeshua was not refering to their born nature but to their idealism that they believe anything they are told as Truth...They are more ready to accept what they are told is the Truth...Adults have grown more cynical over the years...So, must strive to think as children do...Become humble...
I have read this thread and have a couple of thoughts. First off Katie, do you have children? If so, you would see their sinful nature from a young age. They can be rebellious, selfish, demanding, and tempermental. These alone qualify as a sinful nature, and there is no doubt in my mind that if these children could rip off anothers head to get what they want,,they would. I know we would like to think they wouldnt, cause they are so, so precious,,but really give it some thought.
I agree with Mike, that their sinful nature is bought by Christ, and where they knew not the Law, the Law is not imputed upon them. Romans 2 clarifies this. Paul even said he was once 'alive' apart from the Law, but when the Law came, sin was manifested, and he was dead.
It says in Romans that those without the Law, will be judged by the law God has written on their hearts. That settles that for those who have not had sound gospel preaching. God alone assumes 100% responsibility for this, and we have to let Him have it. Right?
But for the rest of us who are walking in Light, let me ask a question.
You want a fair trial at judgement,, or do you want Mercy?
I am beginning to suspect that Katie has lost a baby to death...
If the early church is to be more biblical they would have taught "original death." It was death that passed through into all mankind (Romans 5:12), not sin.
If that be so then why did the Elohim state that they would remove them from the garden lest they eat of the tree of life and become immortal?...Would that logically imply that they were mortals to begin with?...
Jesus was born just as we are without "sin nature" because there is no such thing. He was born with a free will just as we are. Jesus had a choice to sin or not sin just like we do. He chose not to.
Condemnation passes to all men (not babies) because all men choose to sin. Sin separates us from God, not sin nature.
The soul that sins dies, not the soul who inherits sin. There is no such thing as inheriting sin. No scripture ever says such a thing.
Our sin nature is to rebel...The verse states that condemnation had passed to all MANKIND...Women are not men, Babies are not men...However, Men, Women and babies ARE collectively MANKIND which is the meaning of the Greek word used in that verse....
(3) A child needs to a level of maturity before he/she is able to choose between evil/good (Isaiah 7:15, 16).
Isa 7:14 So, The Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold! The virgin will conceive and will bring forth a son; and she shall call His name Immanuel.
Isa 7:15 He shall eat curds and honey until He knows to refuse the evil and choose the good.
Looks to be that Jeshua was indeed born like all of us, from birth...Why would He have to LEARN to refuse the evil and choose the good?...
[quote=mshipmate;22199188]Read my post above yours for what the Scriptures say about children.
ETA: When number 4 of our children, at probably 18 mos., decided to throw a temper tantrum which was quickly nipped in the bud [she tried it two more times til she discovered it didn't work]. So are you honestly telling me she was sinning and or breaking one of God's commanments when she did this? .
I think not. First of all she didn't even know what a commandment was at the time so how could she be sinning i.e breaking God's commandment? [defintion of sinning according to the Scriptures, BTW].
Quote:
The desire to sin resides in all of us from birth]/quote]
That's because we are born in a flesh body; not because we inherit sin from anyone; our parents or Adam.
She was being rebellious...Who did she learn rebellion from at 18 months?...It was obviously part of her inherent nature, which you had to chastise and she had to LEARN that it is not the way to get what one wants...
Jesus was born just as we are without "sin nature" because there is no such thing. He was born with a free will just as we are. Jesus had a choice to sin or not sin just like we do. He chose not to.
Condemnation passes to all men (not babies) because all men choose to sin. Sin separates us from God, not sin nature.
The soul that sins dies, not the soul who inherits sin. There is no such thing as inheriting sin. No scripture ever says such a thing.
Jesus was born without sin because He was born of a virgin. Had He not been born of a virgin (as the rest of us) then He would have been born with Adam's sin. This is the whole reason why He had to be born of a virgin in the first place.
Again, Romans 5:19 shows that we are born with the sin of Adam:
Rom 5:19 for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous.
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