How do Christian churches justify performing same-sex marriages/blessings? (woman, preach, believer)
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That's just retarded. Churches that have accepted gay people into their parishes always lose members who walk away. You don't get "more membership" by accepting gay people, you get fewer.
Yes, the Bible does answer the question about whether or not the church or believers should condone sin in others.
Romans 1 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
To condone and to approve are not the same thing.
Condone: To overlook, forgive, or disregard (an offense) without protest or censure.
Approve: To consider right or good; think or speak favorably of.
Some might argue that condoning is exactly what God does (those who believe it's a person's faith and professing of that faith that saves them, and not their behavior). That's why the questions I asked are so important. I'm not trying to argue which is the most correct outlook, just explaining why a Christian church might consider it "okay" to perform same-sex marriages/blessings.
This is a dangerous area to be messing about with by any Christian church. Spiritually speaking it goes beyond the equality and diversity issues now prominent in many secular organisations and fully supported by human rights law. A church that engages in sodomite acceptance will eventually succumb to the consequences. Women was made for man because God saw that it was not right for man to be alone (and thank God for women). God did not make man for man, and any practices revolving around this area are an abomination to him. Well that's what the Holy Bible teaches us and he's the boss.
However, if you remember back to the days when you first became a believer, you will know that not everything in your flesh was extinguished. You still had opportunities for fornication, adultery, theft, criticism, discrimination and such like. It was up to you to overcome these things with God's help and put them to death, and most likely like myself with the help of believing and experienced Christians. For me, it was not a walk in the park but took about nine months of solid ministry because I was so messed up, but eventually I came through.
Now I am older and hopefully a little wiser, and definitely more compassionate, and I know that new believers come to Jesus as they are. He knows all about them and the errors they are making, and sets too the process of changing them into his likeness which may take a lifetime. That's the good side. The bad side is when experienced and upright Christian believers start to deny their fundamental beliefs simply to maintain acceptance in the world, and start going down the road of liberal thinking and actions. Jesus said that he came not to bring peace but fire (revolution if you like).
The Gospel is not supposed to be a fluffy environment we all live in doing what we want. It is as much to do with discipline as anything else, without which Jesus would never have made it to the cross, and the rest of us would be eternally lost. But Revelations is clear that God will judge the deceivers, false teaches, fornicators, adulterers and those deliberately caught up in homosexual practices. Their end is not a pretty sight, and the Church of God has a duty of care to warn us all of such things, and to discipline and even separate ourselves from such practices. This does not mean to say that we must become self-righteous judges and executioners, but must still maintain compassion, love, prayer and patience towards all fellow brothers and sisters, whatever their personal situation.
To be frank, and from my spiritual experiences, I think the Lord is more concerned about our reaction and dilution of his word than about individuals involved in homosexual practices. It distracts from the real work of God and pushes us into irrelevant time consuming conversations and debates, when we should all be focused on Jesus; and as Jesus stated to Peter after his resurrection concerning John and whether he would see death, basically for Peter to mind his own business and concentrate on his walk with the Lord and look after his precious new Church.
Therefore in finality, any Christian church leader following this doctrine will be made accountable, have no doubts on that score, likewise you will be made accountable for eyeing up that married women across the office, or being unreasonable with someone when you were forgiven for the very same thing or went out to score at a night club after drinking too much. Let the dead bury the dead and let those who follow the false prophet fall into the same ditch. Walk away from this argument and focus on your personal walk with Jesus. Don't get distracted, aim for holiness and purity, and trust the Lord in all things. Remember that he is in control of all things both in this world and the next, and do not go 'Gay Hunting' under the banner of Christianity. It doesn't belong there and Jesus would not approve.
Some might argue that condoning is exactly what God does (those who believe it's a person's faith and professing of that faith that saves them, and not their behavior). That's why the questions I asked are so important. I'm not trying to argue which is the most correct outlook, just explaining why a Christian church might consider it "okay" to perform same-sex marriages/blessings.
If you approve, but must have condoned first, and obviously these churches approve it if they perform such marriages. When a church openly approves sin, as they have in these instances, they turn their backs to God, and are not "Christian churches" anymore, they are just social gatherings.
I agree. However, my point was, I believe that was the attitude of Jesus (love the sinner/hate the sin). No?
No, I'm not sure about that at all. I have trouble boiling Jesus down into little slogans and catch-phrases that suit one's own point of view. I also have non-religious issues with cliches!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
You're right, I do believe homosexual acts are sinful. And yes, I do believe Scripture backs that up. On the other hand, Scipture also tells us to be more concerned with our own sin.
*On a separate point, I wonder why you refer to the Bible as "your book". It appears you meant that in a derogatory manner.
You are right--"your book" (which is also my book, lol, or collection of books to be accurate) was not meant to disparage the Bible! Let me explain. I am strongly against using the bible as a literal interpretation in general and taking verses out of context to use to support one's views in particular. So much damage has been done over the centuries misusing scripture this way, and while not all fundamentalists fit the description of "worshipping the Bible", enough do that it's clear that idolatry of the scriptures is a real danger and a very easy trap into which one can fall. Not going to argue that with you here. I understand that you do not have the same views.
So no, I do not believe that homosexuality is necessarily a sin. It is very clear from the Bible, both OT and NT,that it was culturally frowned upon in the ancient Middle East, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
I stopped reading at the bolded.
That's a shame, because I put a lot of thought into what I wrote, and I'd hoped you would read it. I don't really understand why you took offense, since, as you read, I did preface that statement with "I could be wrong." If I am wrong, then I am mystified as to why you wouldn't just take a moment to correct me. I didn't pull the assumption out of thin air. It's been my experience that very few anti-gay Christians actually are close to any gay people. Of course, there have to be exceptions. There always are.
Anyway, have a blessed day.
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