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Yes, we are certainly more than so many 'ducks and hamsters' ... who also breathe, move, bleed and die.
Yes, we are. We are His offspring, and He is the father of our spirits. We were born as His. Had He not been the father of our spirits, we would not exist. Unlike ducks and hamsters, we are His offspring, not merely His creations. It appears that you and I simply don't see eye to eye on this particular point, and I suspect that no amount of debate with change either of our minds.
Quote:
But, the accompanying theology with many of the "We're all God's children" advocates, goes beyond the literary "God is the father of all life" proposition.
As it well should.
Scripture is VERY clear on this point, so that we will not be confused into believing that just because God created and loves us .... we are automatically "sons/daughters" ... and that He
has somehow obligated Himself to give every created person 'eternal life' beyond this life. Scripture makes it very clear that "We must be born again" and that only believers in Christ have Salvation and eternal life. (The prodigal son parable refers to one who was already a son ... not to a stranger or someone else's son).[/quote]I don't recall anybody except you saying anything about our salvation being "automatic" or that God is "obligated" to do anything for us. Since I believe we were God's sons and daughters at birth, I see us as being in very much the same position as the prodigal son. I don't believe that all of God's children are going to be deserving of the same reward in Heaven, by any means, but that doesn't negate our who we are.
You infer and assume all kinds of things that are not implied by anyone that I know of who believes that we are all God's children.
Anyone who has more than one child knows that a parent will not treat all of their children the same because each one is different and needs different things. Nor does a parent who loves their child never hold them accountable for their choices. But, most certainly, no loving parent/God is going to send ANYone to eternal torment. That you may infer from the biblical definition of love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
This is an important point to understand. Are we more loving than God? Are not God's ways higher than our ways? Is God not able to convert and open the eyes of anyone He chooses at a time of His choosing?
Those who would be special in the eyes of God based on their professed beliefs ABOUT God are simply having their "ears tickled" by their religions and "the precepts of men" they espouse. God has no special children. God is no respecter of persons and has no interest is such things. He is interested in what is in our hearts and how faithfully we follow Christ's commands to "love God and each other," period. It is a waste of time to cast these pearls of wisdom at their feet, Pleroo and lego. God IS love . . . that should be enough to lead anyone who sincerely seeks to understand God to the truth God has "written in our hearts" using the guidance of the Holy Spirit who abides within our consciousness as the Comforter.
God is able to do anything! But, don't you believe He is more likely to do what He has promised, instead of arbitrarily changing His ways to match the way that people think He should be?
Yes I do believe He will do what He has promised. I don't know where you are getting the idea that anyone thinks He will arbitrarily change His ways.
Yes, we are. We are His offspring, and He is the father of our spirits. We were born as His. Had He not been the father of our spirits, we would not exist. Unlike ducks and hamsters, we are His offspring, not merely His creations. It appears that you and I simply don't see eye to eye on this particular point, and I suspect that no amount of debate with change either of our minds.
As it well should.
Scripture is VERY clear on this point, so that we will not be confused into believing that just because God created and loves us .... we are automatically "sons/daughters" ... and that He
has somehow obligated Himself to give every created person 'eternal life' beyond this life. Scripture makes it very clear that "We must be born again" and that only believers in Christ have Salvation and eternal life. (The prodigal son parable refers to one who was already a son ... not to a stranger or someone else's son).
I don't recall anybody except you saying anything about our salvation being "automatic" or that God is "obligated" to do anything for us. Since I believe we were God's sons and daughters at birth, I see us as being in very much the same position as the prodigal son. I don't believe that all of God's children are going to be deserving of the same reward in Heaven, by any means, but that doesn't negate our who we are.[/quote]
JGHorton Response:
While I certainly agree with your first position, your second position seems to contradict the first??
Since we become or are adopted as Sons of God, through faith in Christ Jesus, it is difficult to support the position that all are 'already' Sons of God (or prodigal sons). One might reasonably argue that God already knows who will 'become sons by faith in Christ' and, therefore, that they are perhaps born with a form of sonship. But, to arbitrarily include "all" as sons, removes 'faith, adoption and even salvation from God's proposition.
John 1:10-13: 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Gal 3:25-27: 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal. 4:4-5: 4 But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.
2 Cor 6:14-18: 14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial[a]? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” 17 Therefore, “Come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.” 18 And, “I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.”
The belief that God is 'waiting patiently for his wayward children/sons to come to Him' certainly has merit in light of man's sinful, fallen nature. But, that doesn't allow us to simply overlook man's prerogative to turn to or away from God; nor does it obligate God to simply declare all to be 'His sons/daughters' ... with or without Christ.
My concern is certainly NOT with any possibility that God might ultimately 'save all,' but, with the 'unwarranted comfort zone' assumed by many in the notion that, "All people are God's children ... therefore, God will automatically save everyone ... in spite of what the Bible says."
I'll probably regret asking this, but, what '8th day ... in which we will all be His Children' are you referring to? (please provide scripture reference) - ... AND is that an agreement that 'We are not all already God's children now or during this lifetime?'
God has revealed that there two types of children:
1 John 3:10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are:
Jesus revealed (using the mind of Christ ... fyi) not all are children of God
the sheep (who the children of God are)
the goats (who the children of the devil are)
Matthew 25:32-33 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left
Jesus another time revealed (again using the mind of Christ) not all are children of God
the wheat (seeds sown by God ... who the children of God are)
the weeds (seeds sown by Satan ...who the children of the devil are)
Matthew 13:37-39 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil
the truth is that whomever says "all are" does not listen to the truth, listens to a false testimony, as Jesus said:
John 18:37
" ...In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
Those who listen to truthful testimony listens to what Jesus said ... and he said Matthew 13:37-39, Matthew 25:32-33 and John repeated the truthful testimony of Jesus 1 John 3:10
Those who would be special in the eyes of God based on their professed beliefs ABOUT God are simply having their "ears tickled" by their religions and "the precepts of men" they espouse. God has no special children. God is no respecter of persons and has no interest is such things. He is interested in what is in our hearts and how faithfully we follow Christ's commands to "love God and each other," period. It is a waste of time to cast these pearls of wisdom at their feet, Pleroo and lego. God IS love . . . that should be enough to lead anyone who sincerely seeks to understand God to the truth God has "written in our hearts" using the guidance of the Holy Spirit who abides within our consciousness as the Comforter.
I'll probably regret asking this, but, what '8th day ... in which we will all be His Children' are you referring to? (please provide scripture reference) - ... AND is that an agreement that 'We are not all already God's children now or during this lifetime?'
Hi jghorton, the one symbolized by the day that male children are to be circumcised on. The same one symbolized by the day Jesus rose from the dead. Many don't know the meaning of that but it was well understood in the early church era and found in numerous church father writings. It is a Spiritually understood message.
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