I guess God was joking and did not really mean it... (Torah, preach)

[Ham It Up!]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

Ham It Up, I know that you are sincere, but I believe that God has all power and I accept the scriptures which teach that He will become all in all one day. I do not accept some scriptures and deny others. I believe that the love of God is able to win all hearts and I believe that this is what is revealed in the scriptures. Light is greater than darkness, Ham It Up. God is able to penetrate the darkness in any heart because He has fashioned all hearts. I believe that Jesus has been made heir of all, as presented in Hebrews 1. There is nothing for me to repent of, Ham It Up. God bless and peace.

He who thinks he is so perfect that he has nothing to repent for is totally lost.

I am not going to argue this subject with you guy's any more. I have given you the truth of God and now feel the Holy Spirit is leading me to leave you to Him. And I shall do just that.

May God bless you and help you to come to know His truth.

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by legoman

Have you seen verse this before?

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Surely if God did not want men to be disobedient, He would not have bound everyone over to it!
Surely he would have made them obedient, yet Romans 11:32 says He did not do this.
He actually bound people over to disobedience - for a specific purpose - to ultimately have mercy on them!

Right on legoman.
My Bible says God locks up all in stubbornness that He may be merciful to all.

That word "stubbornness" means "unpersuadableness." They cannot be persuaded as to the truth because God locked them up in unpersuadableness. But it was not to eternally torture them as many Christians believe. God tells us He does so that He would be merciful to them. See Romans 11:32 if you don't believe God. I believe He is believable and does not lie. God saves those He is merciful to.

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by Ham It Up!

He who thinks he is so perfect that he has nothing to repent for is totally lost.

I am not going to argue this subject with you guy's any more. I have given you the truth of God and now feel the Holy Spirit is leading me to leave you to Him. And I shall do just that.

May God bless you and help you to come to know His truth.

Ham It Up, has God told you to "charge and teach these things" that "God is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers"? (1 Timothy 4:10,11) or has God told you to charge and teach He is NOT the Saviour of all mankind, JUST believers? Please let us know what God has told you to charge and teach. I'm all ears. Surely you hear Him.

[ShanaBrown]

He who thinks he is so perfect that he has nothing to repent for is totally lost.

Hi there, Ham It Up, I believe that you know what my statement is referring to , that is what you were referring to.

Please don't be fooled by this lie of satan your following. And you will have to answer for any soul you help go to hell by teaching them this lie. Repent and turn to God before it's too late.

I never said that I was perfect. But I will not assume that you are trying to twist my words So to make it clear to you, there is nothing pertaining to the belief in the salvation of all that is to be repented of Hope you can understand. God bless and peace.

[legoman]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

Right on legoman.
My Bible says God locks up all in stubbornness that He may be merciful to all.

That word "stubbornness" means "unpersuadableness." They cannot be persuaded as to the truth because God locked them up in unpersuadableness. But it was not to eternally torture them as many Christians believe. God tells us He does so that He would be merciful to them. See Romans 11:32 if you don't believe God. I believe He is believable and does not lie. God saves those He is merciful to.

Exactly Eusebius!

This verse is tough one to wrap your head around, especially if your head is in the ET paradigm.
It is apparent Ham is not able to see this verse right now.

Why would God lock us up in stubbornness? Why would He bind us to disobedience? Doesn't He want us to be obedient?

The answer is yes, He wants us to be obedient, but before we can be obedient, we must experience what it is like to be locked up in stubbornness. Then God will be able to have mercy on us and we be able to be made obedient.

Obedience means following God's commands to love God and each other. We cannot do this until we have been humbled from our own pride and stubbornness. The fall is necessary.

It is a brilliant plan, but it makes no sense if you think God sends most of us into eternal torture for being deceived...

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted by Ham It Up!

May God bless you and help you to come to know His truth.

COMING TO KNOW GOD'S TRUTH

Some day everyone going to learn that it was not even possible for them TO NOT start trusting in Jesus as their Saviour when they did start trusting in Him.

The reason we know that everyone will eventually be saved is because God “will have all men to be saved” (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).

Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants” if you like.
Because God says
"My counsel shall stand.
I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11

Job 23:13 “But He stands alone, and who can oppose Him?
He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).

Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)

So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.

His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.
His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen?
Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.

Just like in the case of Lydia (whose heart the Lord opened, Acts 16:14) and Saul of Tarsus (Acts 9:1-8), our cooperation to be saved is the result, not the cause, of God laying hold on us by His sovereign grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart.

The timing of the salvation of everyone is under God's sovereign control.
God arranges everything so each person will be saved according to His perfect timing for each individual.

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by legoman

Exactly Eusebius!

This verse is tough one to wrap your head around, especially if your head is in the ET paradigm.
It is apparent Ham is not able to see this verse right now.

Why would God lock us up in stubbornness? Why would He bind us to disobedience? Doesn't He want us to be obedient?

The answer is yes, He wants us to be obedient, but before we can be obedient, we must experience what it is like to be locked up in stubbornness. Then God will be able to have mercy on us and we be able to be made obedient.

Obedience means following God's commands to love God and each other. We cannot do this until we have been humbled from our own pride and stubbornness. The fall is necessary.

It is a brilliant plan, but it makes no sense if you think God sends most of us into eternal torture for being deceived...

Bingo.
How do the ones who believe in eternal torture justify a God Who locks up all in unpersuadableness just so He can eternally torture them? That cannot be justified because God is not only LOVE but is JUST too.

[legoman]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

Bingo.
How do the ones who believe in eternal torture justify a God Who locks up all in unpersuadableness just so He can eternally torture them? That cannot be justified because God is not only LOVE but is JUST too.

That is why they cannot see or even acknowledge that verse. They themselves are locked up in stubbornness.

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by legoman

That is why they cannot see or even acknowledge that verse. They themselves are locked up in stubbornness.

We have an expectation they won't always be locked up. They have no expectation but what benefits them.

[Mr5150]

Originally Posted by Ham It Up!

He who thinks he is so perfect that he has nothing to repent for is totally lost.

I am not going to argue this subject with you guy's any more. I have given you the truth of God and now feel the Holy Spirit is leading me to leave you to Him. And I shall do just that.

May God bless you and help you to come to know His truth.

Good post. My view. I have decided to make Universalists a hobbie, but there come a point where it becomes boring. Usually when there comes the blind high fives and backslapping.

I have learned a thing or two. Mostly that they twist the plain Truth and the definintion of words to fit their doctrine. A condeseding view towards Othrodox Christianity combined with a "special truth" that they only understand. And an anger towards those who disagree. Seems to fit with the Serpent's lie: Ye shall not surly die. No need for Christ in this life. And just how do UR people think they are going to chat with the folk in the Lake of Fire about Jesus? Nothing in the Bible about that.

Well it's been fun. Perhaps I picked the wrong hobbie.