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Ok, its a short video. He discusses the verse in question in this thread above at about 1:40.
Ok, I just got to 1.04 into it and stopped because this Joseph Prince speaker is wrong. It also dawned on my while I was doing it that I may be contributing to this guy's ministry by giving him viewer credit with Youtube. And I surely don't want to do that to message that is so contrary to God's Word. That may be your minister (I hope not). But if so, I would recommend that you, at least for a time, get a different consultation on God's Word.
I wouldn't set it as a requirement. Maybe were talking semantics, but it sounds close to legalism. I know people who seem to love the Lord (I say seem because I don't know their heart. There are people here who claim to be Christian, but they will tell you themselves they reject Jesus' sacrifice. Those, you can tell), go to church, but smoke like a chimney. Coming out of church I see many people who go across the street and smoke up a storm. I'm not saying smoking is a sin, but they want to stop, but they don't.
I do believe there will be fruit, but are they damned if they don't?
I think the only requirement to be saved is to accept Jesus as your savior. I don't think I've seen you say that good works are needed to be saved, but for those who say that, what about people who accept the Lord and get killed going home from church?
I always hear the "so I can kill anyone and then go to heaven" arguement for grace, but what about someone who doesn't have a chance to do the good works? It's unlikely that this scenario would happen, but more likely than a someone accepting the Lord and then deciding to be a mass murderer. It's like the thief on the cross. Same arguement for works or the need to be baptized to be saved. I've heard the thief is a special case because it was Jesus Himself that told him he would be in paradise. I don't buy it.
Did you know Jesus Christ taught nothing what you are saying here?. Jesus taught good works throughout his whole ministry. Good works to gain ? God forbid. He said learn of me and he likened whoever heard his words and did them, to a wise man who built his house upon a rock. When we are spiritually minded ( thinking from above rather than the earth) we cannot help but be all that God desires us to be.
I wouldn't set it as a requirement. Maybe were talking semantics, but it sounds close to legalism. I know people who seem to love the Lord (I say seem because I don't know their heart. There are people here who claim to be Christian, but they will tell you themselves they reject Jesus' sacrifice. Those, you can tell), go to church, but smoke like a chimney. Coming out of church I see many people who go across the street and smoke up a storm. I'm not saying smoking is a sin, but they want to stop, but they don't.
I do believe there will be fruit, but are they damned if they don't?
I think the only requirement to be saved is to accept Jesus as your savior. I don't think I've seen you say that good works are needed to be saved, but for those who say that, what about people who accept the Lord and get killed going home from church?
I always hear the "so I can kill anyone and then go to heaven" arguement for grace, but what about someone who doesn't have a chance to do the good works? It's unlikely that this scenario would happen, but more likely than a someone accepting the Lord and then deciding to be a mass murderer. It's like the thief on the cross. Same arguement for works or the need to be baptized to be saved. I've heard the thief is a special case because it was Jesus Himself that told him he would be in paradise. I don't buy it.
Legalism or obedience? Jesus said to think NOT that He came to abolish the LAW but to Fullfill it. In fact the word for fulfill in the Greek is actually to make it REPLETE. So should I follow the law - of course, in fact Paul says by Faith we establish it. Jesus only did away with the letter of the law (often referred to as the Law of Moses - an unfair application of the phrase). Now Jesus isn't sinless because He abolished the law and therefore sin. He is without sin because He didn't break the Law of God in Spirit. Though He did break it in Letter.
You questions are valid. You are saved at Faith, that is not questioned. But to continue in Faith you must do Good works or your Faith is not sufficient for salvation (lacking Faith). Therefore, if your Faith is insufficient then your not accessing Grace since Faith is the access to Grace:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Under the umbrella of Grace is where salvation is.
Therefore, it should be understood WHY it is that Jesus inspects the WORKS (aka fruit). The thief could do no more work at that moment than to acknowledge his savior on the cross next to him. Had he come down from that cross, he would have been expected to follow the example Jesus set and live accordingly by practicing good works (not sin).
Did you know Jesus Christ taught nothing what you are saying here?. Jesus taught good works throughout his whole ministry. Good works to gain ? God forbid. He said learn of me and he likened whoever heard his words and did them, to a wise man who built his house upon a rock. When we are spiritually minded ( thinking from above rather than the earth) we cannot help but be all that God desires us to be.
You might try reading the epistles. You also have to see who Jesus was talking to and the context. The epistles are completely in line with what I'm saying.
Legalism or obedience? Jesus said to think NOT that He came to abolish the LAW but to Fullfill it. In fact the word for fulfill in the Greek is actually to make it REPLETE. So should I follow the law - of course, in fact Paul says by Faith we establish it. Jesus only did away with the letter of the law (often referred to as the Law of Moses - an unfair application of the phrase). Now Jesus isn't sinless because He abolished the law and therefore sin. He is without sin because He didn't break the Law of God in Spirit. Though He did break it in Letter.
You questions are valid. You are saved at Faith, that is not questioned. But to continue in Faith you must do Good works or your Faith is not sufficient for salvation (lacking Faith). Therefore, if your Faith is insufficient then your not accessing Grace since Faith is the access to Grace:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Under the umbrella of Grace is where salvation is.
Therefore, it should be understood WHY it is that Jesus inspects the WORKS (aka fruit). The thief could do no more work at that moment than to acknowledge his savior on the cross next to him. Had he come down from that cross, he would have been expected to follow the example Jesus set and live accordingly by practicing good works (not sin).
Works are not needed for salvation. The bible is very clear on that. Pastor Prince is spot on with his messages.
I think obedience is a fruit, not a requirement. Big difference.
What happened to the fig tree when Jesus didn't find fruit on it? Why was He so interested in the fruit and not simply whether the tree was a fig tree or not.
This is because the Fruit is a necessity to produce. It determines the tree. Many shall say that Jesus is the Christ but many will not produce fruit. Those claiming to have Faith and yet not produce Good Works are like the fig tree that doesn't produce fruit.
Mat 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
You might try reading the epistles. You also have to see who Jesus was talking to and the context. The epistles are completely in line with what I'm saying.
Interesting that Jesus did not mention baptism in the end of the sentence here, isn't it? By the way, you should go read every other verse Jesus mentions salvation and notice baptism is not mentioned at all in any of them. To say baptism is required for salvation is to suggest Jesus is a liar.
Here is an article that better explains Mark 16:16.
What is your interpretation of this verse? Why did Jesus himself and his followers get baptized if it wasn't necessary? Shouldn't we do what Christ did? Why is baptism even mentioned in the bible at all if it wasn't necessary for our salvation?
I am not saying the Holy Spirit tells the Believer to go sin,
that would be ridiculous.
But regardless of what we "believe"
we all have free will,
so even if their is a little "Holy Spirit" voice in your head saying "do Good" there is also a little devil who tempts you to do bad.
Even if a person "Believes"
It is still the persons choice to chose which side to listen to.
Assuming the Believer listens to the Temptation, let's say their an Angry person, let's even say some where inside them their "Holy Spirit" is saying "Don't" but they give into Wrath any way,
If this person willingly gives into Wrath and kills some one are they going to be held accountable for it by God? After all you said no Sin can separate some one from God. Will the person though they knew what the right course of action was and yet chose the bad be allowed into Gods Paradise?
Actually you just said no Sin can separate us from his Love.
If you really believe that then the Sin of Disbelief shouldn't matter, God should be able to Love us no matter what we believe.
Just because you "Believe" doesn't mean you automatically become perfect, there is still temptation and the desire to give into it. After all we are flesh and blood human beings, it's going to happen.
Even the most Righteous of People make mistakes, after all where only human.
I Corinthians 10:13-No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the wayofescape, that you may be able to bear it.
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Why did Jesus himself and his followers get baptized if it wasn't necessary? Shouldn't we do what Christ did? Why is baptism even mentioned in the bible at all if it wasn't necessary for our salvation?
