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God's righteousness and justice do not take a back seat to His love.
God's justice actually demands all mankind be saved.
Christ ransomed all mankind and based upon this, God
will have all mankind to be saved (see 1 Timothy 2:4-6).
If God loses just one for whom Christ ransomed then both God and Christ failed.
If you don't believe me, search every where in the Old Testament
where ransom and redeem are used and transfer that understanding to 1 Timothy 2:4-6.
How would you like it the person of the opposite sex who hates you , and despises everything about you and ignores you is forced to marry you and live with you whether you like it or not ..... Well that is like God and the people who will have eternal life God is going to have millions of people in Heaven who hate God and ignore God ....NOT..............Jesus will not fail if people do not make it heaven as if only one person goes to heaven then the victory is complete for the Lord ..........See the legalism of 1 Timothy 2:4-6 is not the complete commands of Christ and there are many prerequisite for salvation which are not in these scriptures which Jesus commands of the people saved from eternal damnation .... If you ignore the commands of Christ and His ideas and believe these fallen ideas then you will not know the living God through Jesus
Frankly, I can't stand 'Justice' (what I deserve). Give me GRACE instead!
Both are choices offered by our loving God.
I do not believe for one minute that God has ever been out to get us to give us what we deserve. In fact I believe the opposite is true, that he's been seeking us to convince us that he's not.
I do not believe for one minute that God has ever been out to get us to give us what we deserve. In fact I believe the opposite is true, that he's been seeking us to convince us that he's not.
Without a shadow of doubt God IS Merciful. If we being evil know how to be merciful, how much more so our Heavenly Father. If God isn't then God is not the savior of all.
I will be merciful to their unrighteousness ( this is God being God) Hebrews 8:12
How would you like it the person of the opposite sex who hates you , and despises everything about you and ignores you is forced to marry you and live with you whether you like it or not ..... Well that is like God and the people who will have eternal life God is going to have millions of people in Heaven who hate God and ignore God ....NOT..............Jesus will not fail if people do not make it heaven as if only one person goes to heaven then the victory is complete for the Lord ..........See the legalism of 1 Timothy 2:4-6 is not the complete commands of Christ and there are many prerequisite for salvation which are not in these scriptures which Jesus commands of the people saved from eternal damnation .... If you ignore the commands of Christ and His ideas and believe these fallen ideas then you will not know the living God through Jesus
How would you like it if the person of the opposite sex who used to hate you and used to despise everything about you and used to ignore you all of a sudden has her heart changed due to seeing the vast love for which you love her and saw you sacrificed EVERYTHING for her.
The only prerequisites to salvation is:
we need to be sinners
Christ needed to take all the sins of all mankind upon Himself on the tree.
God accepted Christ's sacrifice and ransoming of all mankind.
There is not one verse in all the Bible which say if you don't do some sort of "prerequisites" you will go to hell for ever. You are just making things up.
God's righteousness and justice do not take a back seat to His love.
God's justice actually demands all mankind be saved.
No. He wants all mankind to be saved. But all of mankind does not want to be saved.
Quote:
If God loses just one for whom Christ ransomed then both God and Christ failed.
That's far from the truth. 1/3 of the angels in Heaven left their place and went against God with lucifer and are now lost and in Hell. Did he fail by creating them? No. He created them with free will to choose. They chose to do evil. Just like humanity. Some will choose good, some will choose evil.
Last edited by allenk893; 12-17-2013 at 10:14 AM..
Frankly, I can't stand 'Justice' (what I deserve). Give me GRACE instead!
Both are choices offered by our loving God.
The wicked will indeed get what's coming to them, and that's a fair, just punishment:
“The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.” Luke 12:46-48
“Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.” Matthew 11:20-24
Notice that Jesus never addressed the quality of the punishment in luke 12:46-48, but the quantity (few, many). This contradicts the idea of everlasting punishment because you can’t divide something that’s never-ending into different amounts. The verse (Luke 12:46-48) also said he will appoint him “his portion” with the unbelievers. Once again, Jesus was addressing the quantity of the punishment; it is impossible to divide an unlimited quantity of something into a portion. The wicked who knew God’s will and didn’t perform it “shall be beaten with many stripes” Those who did bad but didn’t know God’s will “shall be beaten with few stripes” That’s why God said “…it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgement than for thee” (Matthew 11:24), because Sodom did things worthy of punishment (rape, going after strange flesh etc.) but they didn’t know the will of God. Therefore they will be cut a smaller portion of few stripes. Whereas those who are given a chance to be right with God, but don’t repent shall be cut a greater portion of many stripes. The punishment can’t be never-ending if the stripes aren’t never-ending.
What's also interesting is that in Luke 12, Jesus was using a type of Judgement from the old testament as an example to describe the punishment of the wicked:
If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked. And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number. Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee. Deuteronomy 25:1-3
The people at that time understood that those who receive stripes should not exceed a certain amount. Why would Jesus use an example to describe the fate of the wicked where the punishment should not bypass a certain amount? And if the amount is passed then the person dishing out the punishment should be looked upon as vile? I don't believe that God is vile. Do you?
God's righteousness and justice do not take a back seat to His love.
God's justice actually demands all mankind be saved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893
No. He wants all mankind to be saved. But all of mankind does not want to be saved.
That's far from the truth. 1/3 of the angels in Heaven left their place and went against God with lucifer and are now lost and in Hell. Did he fail by creating them? No. He created them with free will to choose. They chose to do evil. Just like humanity. Some will choose good, some will choose evil.
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Isaiah 45:22-23
God commanding all the ends of the earth to be saved. Will God's command for the ends of the earth be saved return void according to the very next verse? Will every knee and tongue, bow and swear to their salvation?
Many are the plans in a person’s heart, but it is the Lord’s purpose that prevails. Proverbs 19:21
Who prevails? Mans plan or the Lord's purpose?
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.…For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross. Colossians 1:16,19-20
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