Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm a member of a very large circle of Christian believers. I have not met one, not a single one within this group that attempts in any way to "appease God". Firstly, because of our sin it's not possible to appease God in any way at all. That is a fundamental truth of the gospel of Christ. If it were possible then Jesus died that terrible death on the cross in vain. None of our works gain us any merit at all in the sight of an entirely Holy God. That is basic Christian 101. I have to wonder what you think the reason for Christ's sacrifice on that cross is????
I used that term "Propitiation" earlier. It means exactly what you are attributing to Christian behaviours. It means, "to satisfy the anger of" in other words "to appease". In the OT, once a year the high priest entered into the Holy of Holies and sprinkled the blood of the sacrifice on the mercy seat as a propitiation for the sins of God's people. In the New covenant it's the blood of Jesus that is sprinkled directly on God's people, washing them clean from all of their sin. Jesus' sacrifice on my behalf is my propitiation. I'm washed completely clean and now and only for the sake of that propitiation can I enter into the presence of the Lord God Almighty. I now have communion with God, He calls me His child and I can call Him "My Abba Father" Daddy in other words.
Anyone trying to appease God is wasting their time. It's completely and utterly impossible to do. Jesus is my appeaser, He has done it all for me and all I have to do is to trust in that. That is why His yolk and burden is light and easy. He has done for me what I could not accomplish no matter how strenuous I strived to do so.
I thank God for my propitiation, The Lord Jesus Christ, who carries my burdens, who bore my punishment and will bring me through any and all trials and tribulations till I reach glory.
"Nothing in my hands I bring,
Only to thy cross I cling".
What is this All he's done for you that all you have to do is trust it ?
There is no one time deals offered in the scripture for a secure place in heaven. If you are going to say, saved you from eternal hell, please provide at least 1 scripture(even a vague one if you like) that backs this up, anything scripture reference to wrath is not acceptable.
I personally do not believe clinging to the cross achieves anything, it sounds wonderfully religious but that's all. Things happened after he was nailed to the cross at the hands of wicked men, he was buried, rose again and ascended to the Father, all of these have great significance . Scripture teaches that our faith becomes effective by the acknowledging of every good thing that is in us that is in Christ Jesus, clinging to a cross will never have your faith being effective. All it will do is keep you as miserable as sin and pleading the blood to ease your guilty conscience. That was never the purpose of Jesus Christ, he came that we might have life and life more abundantly and you will not discover it clinging to a cross, you'll discover if by putting to death your preconceived ideas of God on your own cross and raised from it transformed by the light shining within you.
Yes I know they don't teach this at church. It's why I don't go. I'd rather stay home making this stuff up.
Originally Posted by Eusebius God's righteousness and justice do not take a back seat to His love.
God's justice actually demands all mankind be saved.
Christ ransomed all mankind and based upon this, God
will have all mankind to be saved (see 1 Timothy 2:4-6). If God loses just one for whom Christ ransomed then both God and Christ failed.
If you don't believe me, search every where in the Old Testament
where ransom and redeem are used and transfer that understanding to 1 Timothy 2:4-6.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
From the OP...
The red... makes no sense with reconciling it with the Bible. Justice of God demands all be saved? The statement is nowhere in Scripture.
Of course the red makes perfect sense especially with reconciling it with the Bible. Since Christ ransomed all mankind, God MUST save all mankind. His justice demands it. If He does not save all mankind since they've all be ransomed, that would be unjust not to save all. That would be like God spitting on Christ's ransoming of all mankind if He doesn't save all.
Quote:
The purple... that's your criteria. Again, un-scriptural.
Of course it's scriptural. Are you saying that if Christ ransomed all and if therefore God wills all to be saved based upon that, but God only gets a few that He somehow suceeded? Wow!
Quote:
The blue... just take Scripture for what it says instead of transferring terms taken from a different time period.
That's the most ridiculous statement I've read in years. Do you think "love" was different in the Old Testament than it was in the New? or "sun" or "moon" or "stars" or "human" or "sacrifice"?
What is this All he's done for you that all you have to do is trust it ?
There is no one time deals offered in the scripture for a secure place in heaven. If you are going to say, saved you from eternal hell, please provide at least 1 scripture(even a vague one if you like) that backs this up, anything scripture reference to wrath is not acceptable.
I personally do not believe clinging to the cross achieves anything, it sounds wonderfully religious but that's all. Things happened after he was nailed to the cross at the hands of wicked men, he was buried, rose again and ascended to the Father, all of these have great significance . Scripture teaches that our faith becomes effective by the acknowledging of every good thing that is in us that is in Christ Jesus, clinging to a cross will never have your faith being effective. All it will do is keep you as miserable as sin and pleading the blood to ease your guilty conscience. That was never the purpose of Jesus Christ, he came that we might have life and life more abundantly and you will not discover it clinging to a cross, you'll discover if by putting to death your preconceived ideas of God on your own cross and raised from it transformed by the light shining within you.
Yes I know they don't teach this at church. It's why I don't go. I'd rather stay home making this stuff up.
I would say, if it were me, that just believing God that Christ died for our sins, was entombed and roused the third day, that God considers us righteous. No longer must one worry what side of the fence they are on. All our sins were died for. I would tell the person to read Romans 4 and how Paul just wants us to believe God like Abraham did, who, upon believing God said he was righteous. And near the end of chapter 4 Paul says this was written for those who are about to be believe God concerning Christ dying for our offenses/sins etc.
If one is really grounded in this matter of believing God, they no long have to "plead the blood" or whatever strange stuff they teach in churches.
Not one person in the 4 gospels or book of acts ever said "save yourselves from hell." It was always "save yourselves from this wicked generation."
Have you read what John the Baptist said to them who asked him what to do to avoid the coming wrath. You cannot help but believe it is not a future event.
Where does it say that God wishes we all live sinless lives. Unless you suppress a desire there is no stopping it from achieving its aim. The word of God is the desire of God and God's word never fails, or do you believe it does ?.
You think he gives us a command to do something and doesn't want us to do it?
You think he gives us a command to do something and doesn't want us to do it?
Now looks who's talking about doing, I thought you believe its all about grace for poor miserable sinners who although they cannot stop sinning , believe Jesus saves them from the consequences of it. Make your mind up.
The command is to love God with all your heart mind, body and soul and your neighbor as yourself, you can't do one without the other,and neither feel like commands when you abide in his love.
Now looks who's talking about doing, I thought you believe its all about grace for poor miserable sinners who although they cannot stop sinning , believe Jesus saves them from the consequences of it. Make your mind up.
That's exactly what it is. God commanded us to do some things, and not do others....but we are incapable. That's why Jesus died on the cross -- to pay the penalty for our sin and turn away the wrath of God.
Quote:
The command is to love God with all your heart mind, body and soul and your neighbor as yourself, you can't do one without the other,and neither feel like commands when you abide in his love.
That's exactly what it is. God commanded us to do some things, and not do others....but we are incapable. That's why Jesus died on the cross -- to pay the penalty for our sin and turn away the wrath of God.
Have you done that perfectly?
You are double minded in your beliefs.
Have I done that perfectly ?. I have not even tried.
Have I done that perfectly ?. I have not even tried.
Then you have not done what you seem to tell me you need to do. You, like me, are a sinner in need of a savior. Either you will pay for your sin, or you need a savior to do so.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. I'd rather stay home making this stuff up.
