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Some need to think about it. However homosexual SEX is a sin scripturally just like murder, lying, adultery, etc.
No one hates the sinner as an individual (or shouldn't) but we must hate the sin so we do not get involved in it ourselves.
Hating sin is not hating sinners, or God would not have sent His son in the first place.
Do you also let every adulterer know how you feel, every single time you see them? Do you try to have their rights as citizens taken away? Do you go on and on and on about the evil adulterer? Do you go on and on and on about their sex lives? The bible says that even if you have looked at a woman with lust in your heart you have committed adultery. Do you think that basically every single person should have their rights removed sin all have sinned? Or is it only those evil gays that get singled out for that one?
What about people who are remarried? The ones that didn't have a biblical divorce are committing adultery every single time they have sex. Should their rights be removed? Should they be treated like "Christians" treat homosexuals? Are there pray away the adultery groups?
What is your sin? Should you be treated the way some Christians treat homosexuals because you have sinned? Should your rights be removed because you have sinned? You're no better than me, and we are all trying to get through live the best we can. Maybe if "Christians" stopped looking down their noses at homosexuals, and treated us like everyone else, we could all find some sort of peaceful coexistence. Until then you will have "Christians" ranting and raging about the evil gays, and homosexuals moving farther and farther from your religion. It's too late for me, I would never come back after the way I have been treated in the name of religion, but there are others, and you are just pushing them away.
Do you also let every adulterer know how you feel, every single time you see them? Do you try to have their rights as citizens taken away? Do you go on and on and on about the evil adulterer? Do you go on and on and on about their sex lives? The bible says that even if you have looked at a woman with lust in your heart you have committed adultery. Do you think that basically every single person should have their rights removed sin all have sinned? Or is it only those evil gays that get singled out for that one?
What about people who are remarried? The ones that didn't have a biblical divorce are committing adultery every single time they have sex. Should their rights be removed? Should they be treated like "Christians" treat homosexuals? Are there pray away the adultery groups?
What is your sin? Should you be treated the way some Christians treat homosexuals because you have sinned? Should your rights be removed because you have sinned? You're no better than me, and we are all trying to get through live the best we can. Maybe if "Christians" stopped looking down their noses at homosexuals, and treated us like everyone else, we could all find some sort of peaceful coexistence. Until then you will have "Christians" ranting and raging about the evil gays, and homosexuals moving farther and farther from your religion. It's too late for me, I would never come back after the way I have been treated in the name of religion, but there are others, and you are just pushing them away.
Fine post.
I hope the bolded part makes at least one or two of them feel shame, and a sense of loss.
Do you also let every adulterer know how you feel, every single time you see them? Do you try to have their rights as citizens taken away? Do you go on and on and on about the evil adulterer? Do you go on and on and on about their sex lives? The bible says that even if you have looked at a woman with lust in your heart you have committed adultery. Do you think that basically every single person should have their rights removed sin all have sinned? Or is it only those evil gays that get singled out for that one?
What about people who are remarried? The ones that didn't have a biblical divorce are committing adultery every single time they have sex. Should their rights be removed? Should they be treated like "Christians" treat homosexuals? Are there pray away the adultery groups?
What is your sin? Should you be treated the way some Christians treat homosexuals because you have sinned? Should your rights be removed because you have sinned? You're no better than me, and we are all trying to get through live the best we can. Maybe if "Christians" stopped looking down their noses at homosexuals, and treated us like everyone else, we could all find some sort of peaceful coexistence. Until then you will have "Christians" ranting and raging about the evil gays, and homosexuals moving farther and farther from your religion. It's too late for me, I would never come back after the way I have been treated in the name of religion, but there are others, and you are just pushing them away.
I am saddened by the situation among so many Christians that provoked this post.This is the problem with the carnal mind. It does not understand that God's ONLY concerns are spiritual (having to do with our state of mind). Too many Christians say they understand that the Bible must be understood spiritually . . . but then proceed to interpret it carnally.
Agape love is the state of mind God is seeking from us. Anyone . . . whether Christian or not . . . who does not have that love in their heart when they act . . . . are sinning (missing the mark). Anyone who DOES have that love in their heart when they act . . . they are NOT sinning (hitting the mark). It doesn't matter WHAT the acts are . . . it matters what is in your heart and mind when when acting. That is what Paul meant when he said that to the one who thinks it is a sin . . . it is a sin. We have no ability to know what is in the heart and mind of anyone, period.
Our primitive carnal ancestors were incapable of making any such distinctions. To them the evil unloving states of mind were automatically assumed to exist if certain acts existed. Those who judge others on their acts are foolishly assuming God-like powers. We are carnal creatures and we can be excused for thinking carnally . . . but NOT for attributing our carnal thinking to God. God knows what is in our hearts and minds . . . so He does not need to judge us on the acts. Bottom line: We should not judge, period!
That tired, robotic trope of "hate the sin - love the sinner" is one of the most disgusting cop-outs that (some) Christians still think counts as some kind of ethical bar they can limbo under.
It isn't.
It's stupid and shallow and serves only to (you think) justify your bigotry and lack of true spiritual insight.
It gives the OK to secretly wink at discrimination. And injustice. And, in the U.S., denial of rights guaranteed by our Constitution.
The cultural shift on LGBT issues means NO lesbian, gay, bi-sexual or transgendered person will have to stay in the closet because of who they are. They can step up, step out and tell the world to stick it if they don't like it.
Your not going anywhere, Vizio. I already for the sake of argument, granted that there is no objective standard. Now what? Do you think that this some how establishes your idea of objective morality - it does not.
If you have no objective system , then all you have is your opinion.
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I also love the hypocrisy of this statement. Vizio asked us to demonstrate an objective standard that gives us the ability to say that something is wrong or right. Why does he think he can ask us to give an objective standard that has the same qualities as his - this would amount to saying that unless the objective standard is my God there can be no other objective standard? He basically, a priori, does not leave any possibility of another.
God created you and me so he can set the rules.
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Second, why does he not subject himself to the same demonstration of his objective standard? Instead he just dodges it and says that it is our responsibility to do so otherwise his standard is established by default without explanation. This is completely intellectually dishonest and hypocritical.
I am not the one making statements about God being immoral, so I have no responsibility to back up such a statement.
Let me explain to you guys what goes through the mind of a gay/sexual minority Christian person, at least for me.
I'm a guy, so growing up, I always expected that I'd eventually meet a woman, get married, and have kids. I'd be a solid provider, an awesome husband and father. Just like I'm supposed to and everybody does. Gay people were sick and weird to me. They were also sinful, so me thinking that they're sick and weird is totally justifiable to me.
So puberty hits, and I notice the guys; much more so than the girls. Great, I think. I'm one of those sick, weird, sinful people. Maybe I can fake it or deny it and nobody would know.
But God knows everything. Besides, homosexuality isn't like other sins. You can lie, steal, commit adultery, even murder... and God will forgive you and you'll be in His good graces. Probably most people will come around to you as well if you repent. But not if you're a homosexual. God hates those people. Outside of being a child molester, it's the worst sin people could commit. They're doomed to eternal condemnation. Sure, they can turn from their ways and become straight, so every night you pray and pray and pray...
The religious people; they're right. You're just not trying enough. If only you were more righteous, maybe you'd become straight. They've got a point - it's easy to not have sex with other men. But you can't get rid of the thoughts. God knows them. Any pretending to be straight is just a lie to God, and you're caught in the sin of being homosexual and the sin of lying. There's no way out. Religious people say things that are mean to you, that are hurtful, and they reject you. But they're right. They're doing this out of love. They're doing what God wants. You're a terrible person, and there's nothing you can do...
Look, I don't want you guys to support gay marriage or even change your minds about homosexual behavior being sinful. If you do, great, but you've got convictions, and things shouldn't be forced in the name of political correctness. All I want is for your to show the love of Jesus. Know that we're all sinners, no matter what we do, who have fallen short of the glory of God. And know that the only reason we're saved is because Jesus died for our sins. He died for ALL of them. That's in the Bible, plain and clear. Therefore, I should be able to stand with you guys, doing the work of God in this world, and we should all show each other Christian love.
Let me explain to you guys what goes through the mind of a gay/sexual minority Christian person, at least for me.
I'm a guy, so growing up, I always expected that I'd eventually meet a woman, get married, and have kids. I'd be a solid provider, an awesome husband and father. Just like I'm supposed to and everybody does. Gay people were sick and weird to me. They were also sinful, so me thinking that they're sick and weird is totally justifiable to me.
So puberty hits, and I notice the guys; much more so than the girls. Great, I think. I'm one of those sick, weird, sinful people. Maybe I can fake it or deny it and nobody would know.
But God knows everything. Besides, homosexuality isn't like other sins. You can lie, steal, commit adultery, even murder... and God will forgive you and you'll be in His good graces. Probably most people will come around to you as well if you repent. But not if you're a homosexual. God hates those people. Outside of being a child molester, it's the worst sin people could commit. They're doomed to eternal condemnation. Sure, they can turn from their ways and become straight, so every night you pray and pray and pray...
The religious people; they're right. You're just not trying enough. If only you were more righteous, maybe you'd become straight. They've got a point - it's easy to not have sex with other men. But you can't get rid of the thoughts. God knows them. Any pretending to be straight is just a lie to God, and you're caught in the sin of being homosexual and the sin of lying. There's no way out. Religious people say things that are mean to you, that are hurtful, and they reject you. But they're right. They're doing this out of love. They're doing what God wants. You're a terrible person, and there's nothing you can do...
Look, I don't want you guys to support gay marriage or even change your minds about homosexual behavior being sinful. If you do, great, but you've got convictions, and things shouldn't be forced in the name of political correctness. All I want is for your to show the love of Jesus. Know that we're all sinners, no matter what we do, who have fallen short of the glory of God. And know that the only reason we're saved is because Jesus died for our sins. He died for ALL of them. That's in the Bible, plain and clear. Therefore, I should be able to stand with you guys, doing the work of God in this world, and we should all show each other Christian love.
Every Christian parish, in any and all denominations, should be proud to have you as a congregant.
(System won't allow me to rep you for some reason. Might be my wonky connection.)
"On today’s Bible Answer Man broadcast, Hank welcomes Joe Dallas, founder of Genesis Counseling, to discuss the controversy surrounding Phil Robertson’s comments on homosexuality, and the current shift in our culture on this issue."
You can fast forward through the commercials to listen to it faster.
Do those of us who have painfully slow internet a favor and tell us what it says.
Nearly one half of this thread has needed to be deleted due to infighting and mass deletions of off topic posts.
With the very next post that is attacking in nature, or adds to any condescension in this thread will result in being infracted.
June "mass deleted." That's all. But the above statement is being held.
Keep it on topic, keep it civil, and please, stop with the contention.
It's Christmas....ya know?
12-22-2013, 07:31 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
How in the world morality and whether it is Subjective or Objective, in a thread about Christianity and the shifting of morals regarding homosexuality, is not on topic is beyond me - LATER!
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