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I once saw a horrible but almost great movie called "Adam and Eve vs the Cannibals" (LOL) that had a very interesting take on creation. It seemed to suggest that Adam and Eve were created specially and separately, but after the fall, they find out that in the jungles there are other humans who speak different languages and also neanderthal-like cannibals they fight against...ROFL! .
I just did with that post. Zulu and the bushman language are so vastly different and I would stake my last dollar that neither were ever in the sandpit of the ME.
You need to save up some pennies and come to SA on vacation and I will show you stuff you never dreamed of or thought existed. I have never been to Egypt but what I have gleaned off pics, there is nothing big to write home about.
I said it earlier, if the bible story emanated from Southern Africa, the content would have been entirely different. Based on your posts,it does appear you have not been exposed to too much diversification like I have. Everything I post pics of I have seen personally.
Now, a kid asks mommy or daddy why so many different skin colours and languages. No answer so they invent a god story to explain the diversity.
I used to speak the local language of the black folk in Livingstone as a kid but I lost that skill as I grew up and my folks emigrated south where the language was again entirely different.
There are so many differences in their culture and I was lucky to have witnessed the last vestiges of traditionalism first hand.
How much diversity have you as an individual been exposed to? I would hazard a guess and say white neighbourhood, white school, white friends and mostly English speaking. Most of my life, it was inevitable to mix with black folk so I have a pretty good idea of their cultures.
IMO you are basing your ideas on hearsay and you have not had the benefit of just how quickly things change in a short distance.
I met a black guy from my hometown in Zimbabwe in Ghana and he recognised my accent. When I asked him if he understood the local language, he replied, nothing in common, he spoke English with them.
You see, this exposure is why I know the Babel story is a myth. I met Somalians recently in SA and their language is closer to Arabic than what the folk speak here plus they look nothing like our locals.
Perhaps now you understand?
Hi SeekerSA,
I have seen quite a few pictures of your continent and they are stunning to say the least. I sure wish I could go there. I truly envy you in that regard. Too many diseases in your country conspire against my decision to visit though.
Here in the United States we have diverse languages amongst the whilte populations. The Louisiana folk have different language sets due to their French heritage. Eastern Southerners a little different from South Western Southerners. After living in California for four years I went back to Ohio where I'm from and I really thought my brothers and sisters were just pulling my leg. I asked them why they are all talking like a bunch of hillbillies. They didn't know what I was talking about. Does this disprove the tower of Babel? No. Does the differences of languages in Africa disprove Babel? No. All the languages have been morphing over the last 4,000 years since the tower of Babel episode. Countries take over other countries bringing their language sets and giving and taking parts of the indigent language from the conquered and conquering.
The truth of the matter is that fundamentalists are terrified that if the creation story isn't 100% literal, it will destroy the original sin doctrine which in their minds will destroy their idea of how Christ's sacrifice redeems. I think this is very presumptuous on their part. Eve not literally bitting an apple or whatever doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't a metaphor for something else that was also a separation from God and humans. Heck, one of the oldest ideas regarding "the fall" believed by many Rabbis of the time is that Adam and Eve had sex with Satan (who was not neccessarily in a modern serpent form) and the fruit and tree's were all metaphorical since they were words occasionally used in innuendo at the time.
I once saw a horrible but almost great movie called "Adam and Eve vs the Cannibals" (LOL) that had a very interesting take on creation. It seemed to suggest that Adam and Eve were created specially and separately, but after the fall, they find out that in the jungles there are other humans who speak different languages and also neanderthal-like cannibals they fight against...ROFL! ...Anyways, The point is that there are many possibilities regarding the metaphor usage in this story as well as the very different type of hebrew writing used in the first 2 chapters and the fundamentalists are assuming waay too much and fighting waay too hard for our current evolutionary understanding to all be bunk.
I don't know how many times I have to say this but, I guess it demands repeating:
No one ever puts a metaphor in their genealogy.
Adam is in the genealogies in both the Old Testament and New Testament. No one in the Old or New Testament ever believed Adam and Eve were not real people.
I don't know how many times I have to say this but, I guess it demands repeating:
No one ever puts a metaphor in their genealogy.
Adam is in the genealogies in both the Old Testament and New Testament. No one in the Old or New Testament ever believed Adam and Eve were not real people.
I never said there was never someone or something named Adam, I just think fundamentals need to be more open minded about what the creation story represents. I've also heard it said that Hebrew genelogy histories primarily refer to heros of a certain generation or geographical location or even time period, so there may have been many more generations in between each "begetting." The Genesis Genealogies: Are They Complete?
I probably don't agree with half the the stuff on that site, but thats probably a good link for that idea. The point is that it may not have been necessary for it to be a perfect genealogy.
Anyways, Eusebius if you were willing to listen to you conscience about Hell and go against the popular view of how the certain verses are to be translated, why can't you be more open minded about this topic of which even many conservative Christians are willing to negotiate? God is not a God of confusionm, and if your right, either there is a massive atheist conspircy going on or God confused the heck out of a lot of scientists.
Jrhockney, I think you are correct that up to the historic world-wide flood (I just have to get that little dig in :-) ) that there were possibly billions of people alive on the earth. The most notable were listed, the most important.
Of course there is more to the Creation account than what is on the surface of the account. The evangel is hidden therein. Adam himself is said to be a type of Christ. So there are shadows and figures inhering within what was written but yet shrouded for millennia until the time was right for it to come forth.
Let me ask you a fair question or two: If you were Satan and you were the god of this eon/world, would you do what ever you could to put a lid on the truth? Would you start up seminaries and Bible colleges? Would you establish evolution in schools to replace the Biblical approach to creation?
Satan is probably more effective in the churches than in the bars and red light districts.
Jrhockney, I think you are correct that up to the historic world-wide flood (I just have to get that little dig in :-) ) that there were possibly billions of people alive on the earth. The most notable were listed, the most important.
Of course there is more to the Creation account than what is on the surface of the account. The evangel is hidden therein. Adam himself is said to be a type of Christ. So there are shadows and figures inhering within what was written but yet shrouded for millennia until the time was right for it to come forth.
Let me ask you a fair question or two: If you were Satan and you were the god of this eon/world, would you do what ever you could to put a lid on the truth? Would you start up seminaries and Bible colleges? Would you establish evolution in schools to replace the Biblical approach to creation?
Satan is probably more effective in the churches than in the bars and red light districts.
If I were Satan and had the power you ascribe to him and God just sat back and did nothing, then yes, maybe I would try to infiltrate schools and science and all that...but I don't see him as having that kind of power or that God would let him get away with such a thing. It would take Satan literally altering document after document and/or hugely altering the minds of the 90%+ of all scientists to the point where they are "lying just to serve their evil master" that they either don't believe in or should be immune to since many if not most of them are already Christian, and probably burying dinosuar bones and altering earth...I hate to say it, that kinda sounds like tin foil hat talk.
In my mind, the kind of leap of faith it takes to believe Satan did all that is far greater than the idea that Genesis 1 and 2 should be taken more metaphorically and that we were meant to grow in our understanding of God's creation. Its probably wouldn't have been wise for God to try to explain gene mutation over millions of years to Abraham or Moses...Whatever really happened in Creation and in Genesis 1 or 2, I see it at the very least as a metaphorical for the Fall that Christ was meant to fix.
I don't know how many times I have to say this but, I guess it demands repeating:
No one ever puts a metaphor in their genealogy.
Of course you can!
A Kryptonian, Jor-El is Superman's biological father.
And pagan Gods also have genealogy.
Mataphoric genealogy has been around for a long time. So the Bible writers copied this pagan idea.
Last edited by Julian658; 01-30-2014 at 04:58 PM..
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