Jehovahs Witnesses and fales dates. (Lutherans, zealous, Antichrist, marriage)
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Most who leave are DF'd for a lack of repentance and usually immorality, and some drug use. They can't admit they were wrong, will not change but must blame someone. The few that are Apostates usually try to get a following and they are rarely heard from. I knew a couple and their ego's drove them. A very few just do not want to live to God's standards and have to reject what they have learned, to live as they please. Adam did that.
Another lie. Yes some get DFed for these things but most are DFed for not believing that the org is the mouth piece for god. If you have more than a passing doubt and ask the wrong questions too many times your out. Don't want the rest of the mind numb to get to thinking too much. You have to be mind numb to be a JW. Your not allowed to think for your self.
It is like Ray Franz, who was caught, lied to save his place, lost it and then changed his story. People want to believe him because he left, but he was a liar. I also knew a very good friend of his who pioneered with him for years. He is painted as a good guy and ... wasn't.
How would you know what Ray Franz was DFed for? You are told a lie and you buy it hook line and sinker. You would not know the truth if it fall from the sky landed on your face and started to wiggle. Your fed BS and you eat it up go MMMMMM can I please have some more. I feel very sorry for people like you. Your wasting your life on a lie built upon more lies. Very sad.
One I spoke with was a very knowledgeable individual and had done deep study and published several books. However he began to see himself as special and the last time we met for coffee he said he was the Faithful Slave and tried to start his own group. Haven't heard much about him in a few years.
We always have to be careful with what some call 'deep study'. A philosopher named Descartes studied so deeply he studied everything and everyone out of existence. Concluding that only he himself was the only thing that he could really prove existed. Again, humility is so important.
In my study in the history of the Witnesses I have seen subcultures rise up. Those subcultures do a lot of damage to the spiritual weak ones. Yet in the past 15 years these subculture instances have been reduced. It's the quality of people that remain now really has been impressive. I hate it when people fall away from Jehovah, but these detractors are doing Jehovah's work by removing those that don't have a heart for Jehovah. They might have the mind (intelligence) and body (do physical things) but not the heart for Jehovah. If they are a righteous person then Jehovah will not let them stay down. I have first hand experience with this. "Although he may fall, he will not be hurled down, For Jehovah supports him by the hand. I was once young and now I am old, But I have not seen anyone righteous abandoned." - Ps 37:24, 25
We always have to be careful with what some call 'deep study'. A philosopher named Descartes studied so deeply he studied everything and everyone out of existence. Concluding that only he himself was the only thing that he could really prove existed. Again, humility is so important.
In my study in the history of the Witnesses I have seen subcultures rise up. Those subcultures do a lot of damage to the spiritual weak ones. Yet in the past 15 years these subculture instances have been reduced. It's the quality of people that remain now really has been impressive. I hate it when people fall away from Jehovah, but these detractors are doing Jehovah's work by removing those that don't have a heart for Jehovah. They might have the mind (intelligence) and body (do physical things) but not the heart for Jehovah. If they are a righteous person then Jehovah will not let them stay down. I have first hand experience with this. "Although he may fall, he will not be hurled down, For Jehovah supports him by the hand. I was once young and now I am old, But I have not seen anyone righteous abandoned." - Ps 37:24, 25
Yes, I have seen this too. I am a person who checks facts not just accepts things from the stupid web sites. Like about Ray Franz.
He and a group of Elders were involved in teaching their own ideas, but in Spanish congregations. One memorial it came out and when the ones involved were questioned only Ray agreed he was wrong, gave information on the others and was not DF'd. He was "reproved" and asked to leave Bethel. he joined a congregation in the South and was a publisher there for quite some time. Then he became friends with a DF'd Witness and started going back to what he believed about going to heaven before. When confronted he refused to change and was DF's. Now when did he lie?When he said what he believed was false, so as not to get DF'd or after being DF'd saying it was true? This is public knowledge about how such cases are handled and his in particular. His ego would not let him just be a member of a congregation after being on the Governing Body. He lied one time or the other.
Yes, I have seen this too. I am a person who checks facts not just accepts things from the stupid web sites. Like about Ray Franz.
He and a group of Elders were involved in teaching their own ideas, but in Spanish congregations. One memorial it came out and when the ones involved were questioned only Ray agreed he was wrong, gave information on the others and was not DF'd. He was "reproved" and asked to leave Bethel. he joined a congregation in the South and was a publisher there for quite some time. Then he became friends with a DF'd Witness and started going back to what he believed about going to heaven before. When confronted he refused to change and was DF's. Now when did he lie?When he said what he believed was false, so as not to get DF'd or after being DF'd saying it was true? This is public knowledge about how such cases are handled and his in particular. His ego would not let him just be a member of a congregation after being on the Governing Body. He lied one time or the other.
Well, the Bible says that judgement doesn't start with the nations or any other group. It starts with God's own house first. (1 Peter 4:17) I have every confidence Jehovah's Son knows what he is doing.
Well, the Bible says that judgement doesn't start with the nations or any other group. It starts with God's own house first. (1 Peter 4:17) I have every confidence Jehovah's Son knows what he is doing.
How would you know what Ray Franz was DFed for? You are told a lie and you buy it hook line and sinker. You would not know the truth if it fall from the sky landed on your face and started to wiggle. Your fed BS and you eat it up go MMMMMM can I please have some more. I feel very sorry for people like you. Your wasting your life on a lie built upon more lies. Very sad.
Everyone who knows the word of God --knows imperfect mortal men fall sometimes. One cannot judge a religion on what an imperfect mortal man does, yet it occurs over and over. King David took another mans wife, then sent the man to be killed--should the Israelites have left the religion because of that? The Israelite kings fell many times and mislead the whole nation to lose Gods favor( some stood). A hand picked apostle , by Jesus sold him for 30 pieces of silver, should they have all left because of what an imperfect man did--NO.
The teachings of Jesus prove it all, prove who is who. The only teachers I ever found that actually teach what Jesus taught are the JW teachers--where would one go? to a place where they don't bother teaching all that Jesus actually taught--No.
The world needs to realize--satan' #1 job--attack Jesus' seed relentlessly--these are imperfect mortal man. Not all endure till the end. Satan owns the rest, he doesn't need to attack them.
Why do you believe you have the right to define who is and isn't a Christian?
I don't
A common lay definition of a "Christian" is one who acts like Christ
Then there are those who subscribe to the "you are a Christian only if you subscribe to the Cardinal Doctrines of Christianity" that some council or group agreed to.
Of course there is always the Bible that one can look for the answer, right?
Scripture defines the actions of a Christian based on the teachings of Christ
Jesus himself identifies who his followers are hence "Christians:" John 13:34:35, Matthew 5:44, 1 John 4:20, 2 Cor 10:3-5, 1 John 3:10,15. I could continue but the point is we aren't left in ignorance as to who is a Christian. Some identify themselves as Christians-their actions and words indicate otherwise and it isn't that people disagree over doctrine... that wasn't the point. There isn't an issue in having frank discussions based on God's Word. The Bereans, for example, are mentioned as being noble minded in that they readily listened to the apostle Paul. However, they carefully examined Scripture to verify what was being taught. Unfortunately all too often discussions such as these aren't based on God's Word but based on mudslinging and vitriol and forment bigotry and hatred.
Just going to church and parking oneself in the pew and making confessions about being a Christian doesn't make one a Christian anymore than going into a garage makes oneself a car.
Yeah, ya know, I don't care what they believe, as far as I'm concerned they can believe whatever they like, I just wish they would leave me alone about it. They have hounded me through 5 states now, and I'm sick of them pestering me in my home and in public places. They accosted me in a laundromat in Alabama, then tracked me to my home, then to where I worked pressing me in every way they could come up with. One of their women approached me at work there while I was stocking groceries and told me they knew I was having a hard time and offered to help, so they already had been snooping into my personal business. I knew the price that help would come with and told her I would accept help if I could work for it. Not what she wanted to hear. They wanted me obligated to them. I had already told them I have my own beliefs and asked them to respect that, and they did not, and proceeded to aggressively harass and stalk me.
Ya know, if their religion were all that great the world would be beating a path to THEIR door, instead of them harassing us in our homes, in public, and where we work. Here in Florida I see them at the bus stops, hassling people who get off the busses and are funneled right into them and they have been ringing my doorbell and knocking on my door for months here, until I had to put up a very explicit sign demanding they leave me alone or I would bring suit against them for trespass and harassment. In California one of them lived in my neighborhood and would never leave me alone anytime I showed myself outside my house. In Texas they did the same, beating on my door constantly, and in Michigan it was the same old thing 2 and 3 times a week, them at my door, pestering me to no end.
What they do is harassment. I've no use for people like them, no use for their obsessive controlling and stalking cult. They permanently alienated me many years ago.
There is no substitute for Matthew 24:37. Just leave it at that as do many JWs. The early Christians were taught to preach and teach urgently yet all the while knowing what Jesus said. So one would expect to just continue doing the best one can to follow Jesus's words in Matthew 24:14 and Matthew 28:19,20 and God knows the best time to bring things to a close. Whether it comes in my lifetime or not doesn't matter.
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