The Doctrine of Salvation by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone (punishment, Revelation)
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Then James began to speak and told how Peter had related how God first concerned himself About taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. James was in agreement with Peter and with Paul that salvation is by grace. And had he not been in agreement he would have said so instead of saying that it was his judgment that the Gentiles who were turning to God not be troubled with the claims of the Judaizers.
This should not be difficult to understand, and yet so many DON'T understand it and don't even try to understand it.
As Jesus Himself said, and which I have repeatedly stated on other threads is that Jesus said that there was one work of God and that was to believe on Him, in contrast with the works which the crowd to whom He spoke believed they needed to do in order to be saved. This is covered in John 6:27-29. The singular 'work' of believing on Christ is non-meritorious in contrast with any meritorious work man can do.
Salvation is by grace though faith AND NOT BY WORKS, so that no man can boast, as stated in Ephesians 2:8-9. And which Jesus made clear in John 6:27-29.
You are right Mike. Salvation is by faith only and not something you work for and even the works that follow are Christ in you are both to will and to do the Fathers' good works. But salvation means salvation from sin/dead works unto righteousness. Doing good through Christ saves us in very practical ways. So then, is it not by self effort but rather it is by faith, the substance of the unseen attributes of God that we do good. His love is given to us by faith which is the root to all that is good. Didn't Jesus say, LK 17:10 "So likewise you, when you shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do." The reason being of coarse is that by our selfs we can do nothing of the works of God. Therefor we have nothing to boast of except in Christ who does all through us.
Works follow as a necessary part of salvation but are never the means to get it. But works will follow because faith is the substance of the unseen things of God which is His righteousness imparted to you.
HEB 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." If a man is transformed to the things not seen [spiritual fruit] it is the evidence that his faith is genuine. This is what James is talking about. JAS 1:22 "But be you doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves."
If a man says he has faith and is not transformed by that faith then as James says that kind of faith is vain/dead. Your good works in Christ will prove you are saved even if it amounts to only one talent whereas others might have two or five talent. If one were to bury even that one talent rather than investing it then he has made his salvation void but yet can be restored. Salvation is not a mere forgiveness of sin but a change also from sin unto righteousness from one state of Glory to another and hopefully greater Glory/Beauty of Righteousness.
Many people say they believe in God but what some are really saying is that they believe there is a God but what does the Scriptures say, ACTS 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." And that is no doubt the very reason Jesus said JN 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe also in Me." For only in Christ is the substance of things hoped for, which can be summed up as salvation/transformation. Salvation from sin, poverty, ill heath, loneliness and whatever man needs by being transformed.
HEB 6:1 "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,---" We need not keep laying the foundation of faith but rather now that we have the substance of things hoped for, let us go on to perfection with good works that accompany salvation.
This thread has served its purpose with the posting of the studies on salvation which explain the issue. Most of the people on this forum will not even bother seeing what they have to say. But it is there for those who will.
True, most will not, but be honest, Mike. If I posted a 10-hour series on salvation by faith plus works and why it's Biblical would you sit through it?
James did indeed agree with Paul and with Peter that salvation is by grace. James was at the council at Jerusalem along with Paul and Peter.
At that council were some men who had come from Judea who were teaching that in order to be saved you had to be circumcised according to the custom of Moses (Acts 15:1). Peter refuted that claim and stated that 'We' believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way that they also are [Jew and Gentile are saved by grace]. (Acts 15:11). Then Paul and Barnabas began relating the signs and wonders that God had done through them among the Gentiles (Acts 15:12). Then James began to speak and told how Peter had related how God first concerned himself About taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. James was in agreement with Peter and with Paul that salvation is by grace. And had he not been in agreement he would have said so instead of saying that it was his judgment that the Gentiles who were turning to God not be troubled with the claims of the Judaizers.
You are misrepresenting quite a lot here, Mike.
At the council, Peter said, "We certainly believe that the Lord Jesus saves us the same way that he saves them-through his kindness." There is absolutely nothing Peter said that can be directly correlated to being in agreement with Paul on the issue of salvation by faith alone and without good works.
Here is exactly what James told the assembly after Peter spoke:
Quote:
James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]—
18 things known from long ago.[c]
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
Actually James was directly contradicting Paul on the eating of food sacrificed to idols. James, it appears to me was against Gentiles eating foods sacrificed to idols. Paul makes very clear in 1 Corinthians 8 that he personally had no problem with eating foods sacrificed to idols, but if it caused less-educated Christians to be bothered then he advised more mature Christians to refrain.
Honestly, Mike I am shocked that a person of your seeming integrity could misrepresent the scriptures so blatantly in your zeal to defend salvation by faith alone.
At the council, Peter said, "We certainly believe that the Lord Jesus saves us the same way that he saves them-through his kindness." There is absolutely nothing Peter said that can be directly correlated to being in agreement with Paul on the issue of salvation by faith alone and without good works.
Here is exactly what James told the assembly after Peter spoke:
Actually James was directly contradicting Paul on the eating of food sacrificed to idols. James, it appears to me was against Gentiles eating foods sacrificed to idols. Paul makes very clear in 1 Corinthians 8 that he personally had no problem with eating foods sacrificed to idols, but if it caused less-educated Christians to be bothered then he advised more mature Christians to refrain.
Honestly, Mike I am shocked that a person of your seeming integrity could misrepresent the scriptures so blatantly in your zeal to defend salvation by faith alone.
Instead of accusing me of misrepresenting the Scriptures, take the time and make the effort to learn something of which you would speak.
Acts 15:11 "But we believe that we are saved through the grace (charis; grace, favor, kindness) of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."
The Greek word Charis means grace, favor, kindness.
Strong's Concordance
charis: grace, kindness
Original Word: χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ece)
Short Definition: grace, favor, kindness
Definition: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness Strong's Greek: 5485. ????? (charis) -- grace, kindness
Here is what James said about the issue of eating food sacrificed to idols.
James 15:28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us (ἡμῖν; hēmin -to us) to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: 29] that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."
The 'us' to which James referred were all those at the council of Jerusalem, including the apostle Paul, who were defending salvation by grace against the Judaizers.
Here is what Paul said concerning eating food sacrificed to idols.
1 Cor. 8:1Now concerning things sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies.
2] If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know;
3] but if anyone loves God, he is known by Him.
4]Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.
5] For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,
6] yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
7] However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8] But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat.
9]But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.
10] For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, dining in an idol's temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols?
11] For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died.
12] And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.
13]Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.
The issue concerning not eating food sacrificed to idols had nothing to do with being eternally saved by grace through faith. It had to do with not eating such food if it caused a weak believer to stumble.
You are right Mike. Salvation is by faith only and not something you work for and even the works that follow are Christ in you are both to will and to do the Fathers' good works. But salvation means salvation from sin/dead works unto righteousness. Doing good through Christ saves us in very practical ways. So then, is it not by self effort but rather it is by faith, the substance of the unseen attributes of God that we do good. His love is given to us by faith which is the root to all that is good. Didn't Jesus say, LK 17:10 "So likewise you, when you shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do." The reason being of coarse is that by our selfs we can do nothing of the works of God. Therefor we have nothing to boast of except in Christ who does all through us.
Works follow as a necessary part of salvation but are never the means to get it. But works will follow because faith is the substance of the unseen things of God which is His righteousness imparted to you.
HEB 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." If a man is transformed to the things not seen [spiritual fruit] it is the evidence that his faith is genuine. This is what James is talking about. JAS 1:22 "But be you doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves."
If a man says he has faith and is not transformed by that faith then as James says that kind of faith is vain/dead. Your good works in Christ will prove you are saved even if it amounts to only one talent whereas others might have two or five talent. If one were to bury even that one talent rather than investing it then he has made his salvation void but yet can be restored. Salvation is not a mere forgiveness of sin but a change also from sin unto righteousness from one state of Glory to another and hopefully greater Glory/Beauty of Righteousness.
Many people say they believe in God but what some are really saying is that they believe there is a God but what does the Scriptures say, ACTS 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." And that is no doubt the very reason Jesus said JN 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe also in Me." For only in Christ is the substance of things hoped for, which can be summed up as salvation/transformation. Salvation from sin, poverty, ill heath, loneliness and whatever man needs by being transformed.
HEB 6:1 "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,---" We need not keep laying the foundation of faith but rather now that we have the substance of things hoped for, let us go on to perfection with good works that accompany salvation.
The issue of whether the believer will necessarily produce works is addressed in the following classes in the study provided in the OP.
Salvation-013
Does Saving Faith Produce Works? James 2:14. December 18, 2002
Salvation-014
Does Saving Faith Necessarily Produce Works? James 2:14-26. January 08, 2003
So if anyone is interested in taking the time to listen to hopefully all the classes . . . great. But if not, well, that is each person's choice. I realize that most people probably will not take the time or have the desire to do so. But they are there for whoever wants to learn about the things covered in those classes. What is covered in each class is listed in the OP.
The Greek word Charis means grace, favor, kindness.
Strong's Concordance
charis: grace, kindness
Original Word: χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ece)
Short Definition: grace, favor, kindness
Definition: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness Strong's Greek: 5485. ????? (charis) -- grace, kindness
Here is what James said about the issue of eating food sacrificed to idols.
James 15:28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us (ἡμῖν; hēmin -to us) to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: 29] that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."
The 'us' to which James referred were all those at the council of Jerusalem, including the apostle Paul, who were defending salvation by grace against the Judaizers.
Here is what Paul said concerning eating food sacrificed to idols.
1 Cor. 8:1Now concerning things sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies.
2] If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know;
3] but if anyone loves God, he is known by Him.
4]Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.
5] For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,
6] yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
7] However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8] But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat.
9]But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.
10] For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, dining in an idol's temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols?
11] For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died.
12] And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.
13]Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.
The issue concerning not eating food sacrificed to idols had nothing to do with being eternally saved by grace through faith. It had to do with not eating such food if it caused a weak believer to stumble.
The grace that Peter is referring to is the kind of kindness/favor any human can show to another and certainly God can show to men. He shows charis (kindness) to sinners and heathens every minute of the day. ("For he makes his sun shine on good and bad people alike, and he sends rain to the righteous and the unrighteous") Surely this grace is not the grace that brings salvation to those who come to Jesus. Even you can see the difference between the two totally separate types of grace in each condition.
As for James, again I say he never once mentioned salvation by grace alone or any sort of being in agreement with Peter on this point. It's pure supposition on your part: "Well, if James was at the council with Peter and Peter believes in salvation by faith alone, then James must be in agreement with Peter." It's called "connecting dots" that aren't even there and it's very deceptive and misleading.
The grace that Peter is referring to is the kind of kindness/favor any human can show to another and certainly God can show to men. He shows charis (kindness) to sinners and heathens every minute of the day. ("For he makes his sun shine on good and bad people alike, and he sends rain to the righteous and the unrighteous") Surely this grace is not the grace that brings salvation to those who come to Jesus. Even you can see the difference between the two totally separate types of grace in each condition.
As for James, again I say he never once mentioned salvation by grace alone or any sort of being in agreement with Peter on this point. It's pure supposition on your part: "Well, if James was at the council with Peter and Peter believes in salvation by faith alone, then James must be in agreement with Peter." It's called "connecting dots" that aren't even there and it's very deceptive and misleading.
The grace of which Peter spoke is the grace by which anyone who believes on Christ is saved.
Acts 15:11 "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."
Peter was saying that both Jews and Gentiles are saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus. Peter was speaking out against the Judaizers who were claiming that in order to be saved one had to be circumcised according to the custom of Moses.
James who was apparently the leader of the Jerusalem church was in agreement with Peter and the others that salvation is by grace. James was one of the people to whom Peter referred when he said that 'WE' believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus in contrast with the Judaizers.
After Peter and Paul and Barnabas spoke, James who was in agreement with them that salvation is by grace then suggested four things (Acts 15:28-29) that the Gentile believers should follow. These four things that he suggested have nothing to do with the issue of the believer's eternal salvation, but were things the Gentile believers should follow. As James said, ''It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you (the Gentile believers) no greater burden than these four essentials (the things mentioned in verse 29).
James laid no burden on the Gentile believers with regard to their salvation as he believed in salvation by grace, but he presented the four things which he mentioned that the Gentile believers should observe.
Last edited by Michael Way; 02-16-2014 at 10:50 AM..
James laid no burden on the Gentile believers with regard to their salvation as he believed in salvation by grace, but he presented the four things which he mentioned that the Gentile believers should observe.
Mike, I believe in salvation by grace. I just do not believe in salvation by grace alone. James believed in salvation by grace; but it's evident by his own words that he did not believe faith could stand by itself as a salvation worker; it needs good works to complete it. "So you see faith WITHOUT GOOD WORKS IS A DEAD FAITH".
Mike, I believe in salvation by grace. I just do not believe in salvation by grace alone. James believed in salvation by grace; but it's evident by his own words that he did not believe faith could stand by itself as a salvation worker; it needs good works to complete it. "So you see faith WITHOUT GOOD WORKS IS A DEAD FAITH".
The fallacy is believing there is such a thing as faith alone. The only way you KNOW faith really exists is by its works. That is what James was trying to convey. There is no such thing as faith alone. It is an empty claim promoted by easy believers.
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